If you believe in your livestock, why not guarantee it ?

[Race]

Edited

 

[dizzy]

Race,
Why do you and Kevin want to be responsible for all the rare stuff being pulled out of the ocean? Surely you realize that the rarer something is, the less likely it can be collected sustainably. Even if it is legal it doesn't necessarily mean it has been studied enough to be determined sustainable. If this industry gets shut down you guys will deserve some of the credit.
Mitch

 

[Race]

Rare means rare in the trade, not in the ocean. Come on Mitch, you know that. Like the last $10,000 of Gem Tangs, they never saw a West 104th Wholesaler. Don't twist and play with words Mitch. We do not sell any types of livestock which the retailers do not sell, period.

 

[dizzy]

Race,
I'm just afraid PETA types will read your words and use them against our industry. Your position may be hard to defend. It makes it look like our industry cares more about profit than sustainablility. You may be right about rare not really being rare, but if I can twist your words, you can be absolutely certain someone from the other side of the issue will be able to as well.
Mitch
PS
You are aware that Snorkel Bob referenced your web site when he was running down our industry, aren't you?

 

[Race]

Mitch,
I will handle myself with PETA, they are welcome to tour our facility. AMDA can represent the retailers.

 

[Anonymous]

It makes it look like our industry cares more about profit than sustainablility. You may be right about rare not really being rare, but if I can twist your words, you can be absolutely certain someone from the other side of the issue will be able to as well.

Generally, does anyone actually have to twist anyones words to come to that conclusion? If it were generally untrue, sure, but since its generally true, I fid it odd that we should twist our words so people don't come to that conclusion. The traditional COC is icky, and I am glad there are some people looking for new ways to do things.

 

[dizzy]

Rich,
I'm still trying to figure out which words I am accused of twisting. I think rare by definition probably means some of this stuff is not sustainable. I don't always agree with Eric Borneman, but I do agree that some of this stuff has not been studied enough to determine if it is truly rare, or just rare in the supply line. Legal does not necessarily equal sustainable. Perhaps Race can enlighten on which words.

SW, wrong assumption. QM dropships our common livestock. Almost all of the rare, unusual and expensive ( Divers Den ) comes from 15+ other suppliers and a supply chain which is increasingly pre-wholesale. I pay cash, one day air payment if needed, don't care about discounts, hate stock status junk mail, rarely claim DOAs and do not beat up vendors for better prices. Never missed a payment or paid late in 25 years, and I mean not EVER!!!!!


To all vendors and private sellers------For the rare, Kevin will pay cash, one day air payment. Will not ask for terms but we want the best livestock in the US. We will pay 30% more ( thirty percent more) than your next best price for the rare and unusual as long as it is healthy and legal. Once product is delivered we will send cash payment one day air service. No public stock status brochures please, hate em.

Prefer personal and confidential contact,--- private negotiation,--- for rare, healthy and legal specimens.

Does that answer your question SW ? Yes, I am after the best livestock but it probably is not coming from your Wholesaler. Don't get mad at them.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Mitch,

I wasn't pointing at you in particular, but the 'industry'. The twisting I was referring to was the general brushing under the carpet of juiced fish. Sorry if I wrote it in a way that made it seem it was directed at you.
A lot of this stuff hasn't really been studied in regards to sustainable harvest or in population density. There isn't the money for it, or no one has cared much. In cephs, its even worse.

 

[Race]

Edited.

 

[Race]

And yes ------------I do believe we create business and ARE part of the sustainability problem. I am doing my best to find domestic solutions but without the help of retailers, I feel like a one person show. I am doing what I can and so is Kevin.

Hopefully we can improve the image of the entire hobby, retail, etail or whatever. Baby steps perhaps, but at least steps. I think Animal Planet will prove positive and took more work and money to put together than anyone on this board will realize. Kevin has some nice aquarium segments to air on Animal Planet. He did a fantastic job, as always. He will help all of you in this industry.

 

[dizzy]

Mitch,
I have been accused by you and others of not creating business, only taking sales from retailers. Steve R. (cortez marine) called me a parasite on this very board. How then am I an increased factor in sustainability? If all of you are correct, I am only shifting sales from you to me. The net impact on the oceans is zero.

It's funny that you think that way. Why just yesterday one of 104th street's finest informed me that most retailers are not looking to buy the rare stuff like you are. He said they primarily sell rare stuff to you because you are about the only one willing to pay the high prices for this stuff. So you really are creating new business by creating a demand for rare marinelife. In our store we primarily sell stuff that is common to the public because we feel the rare marinelife should be keep in public aquariums and not private collections. It sounds like you are driving up the price of some of this stuff so public aquariums like the one Jay Hemdal works at have a hard time affording it. (Reference to the 10K Asian arrowana) So we have very different opinions on seeking out rare items. If it is rare because it is deep water it is different than if it is rare because it is easy to over collect like a Rhinopias species or something. I think your coral facility is really nice. I think the cut and paste corals Kevin had on the video are fine. I think your selling moorish idols with warnings is ok. I don't care if you do $1,000,0000.00 or $1,000,000,000.00 a year in sales. I don't really care how much you spend in advertising per year. You can run your business in any legal manner you so choose and that is your right. I'm more interested in how my store is doing and I'm doing ok.

BTW I saw your comment about have some fire scarecrow before you edited it out. Well this one reminds me of you and how you can't get over AMDA:

Little Snow-White's wicked step-mother was bidden to the feast, and when she had arrayed herself in her most beautiful garments, she stood before her mirror, and said--

"Mirror, mirror upon the wall, Who is the fairest fair of all?"
And the mirror answered--

"O Lady Queen, though fair ye be, The young Queen is fairer to see."
Oh! How angry the wicked woman was then, and so terrified, too, that she scarcely knew what to do. At first she thought she would not go to the wedding at all, but then she felt that she could not rest until she had seen the young Queen. No sooner did she enter the palace than she recognized little Snow-White, and could not move for terror.

Then a pair of red-hot iron shoes was brought into the room with tongs and set before her, and these she was forced to put on and to dance in them until she could dance no longer, but fell down dead, and that was the end of her.


THE END

 

[Race]

I like it.

 

[Race]

Edited

 

[Race]

Mitch,
All else aside, I do appreciate and respect you perspective on things. We differ in our goals but that does not make either one of us right or wrong, IMO.
As an industry we need to find the common ground and coexist for the betterment of the hobby. We should not use " sustainability" as a weapon to pit retail against etail. Sustainability is all of our problem and a problem to which we all contribute.

I have always felt that we need a better industry, not a bigger one.

Race


The End!

 

[IconicAquariums]

Like the last $10,000 of Gem Tangs, they never saw a West 104th Wholesaler.

Race,

How do you feel about said supplier selling the same fish on fleabay and exploiting fish that have a very small export quota (the Conspics too - they say it takes ~8 years for them to repopulate)? How do you feel about him previously advertising 14" Leopard Sharks over the past year? Someone on 104th repacked those fish... How is the extra 30% you're offering to pay going to be able to compete with people buying direct from the guy since he wants to be on both sides of the fence?

At 1/3 the price, excluding the guarantee and proper handling, treatment, etc., what percentage of people are going to buy the $1,100 Conspic vs. the $3,000 one you have? The fish already has such a small market as it is at it's price point, survivability, etc.

BTW - the flight from the Gems' origin country is over 45 hours to LAX, which is why they will never usually see a LAX wholesaler other than when they are being bought from Europe or Asia.

 

[Caterham]

In my opinion one of the neatest things about the new $350,000 liveaquaria.com website is the way that it crashed yesterday and was unavailable for many hours while customers were forced to shop elsewhere. This brings us back to the main premise of this thread, guarantees.

I feel that a $350,000 website should come with a 14 day satisfaction guarantee. If a company that writes code as their primary source of income knows what they are doing then they should stand behind their work. If they do indeed believe in their abilities, then why not guarantee it?

 

[JeremyR]

Maybe the guaranteed uptime clause was another 50 thousand.

I often wonder if the "other vet" is as caustic & egotistical as this one. Burn scarecrow, burn... man, that's good PR there.

 

[Anonymous]

LOL I wonder if there would be any crying once the wholesaler decides they don't need their 30% and instead goes flat out, no smoke and mirrors direct to the public for more.

 

[Race]

Thank you guys for the dialogue. I always enjoy chatting with you and certainly respect your opinions. I will be off the boards for a while as I am turning my attention to spring calving in Montana. Time to rope, throw, and brand 'em.

Wish you guys the best this spring!

Thanks,

Race

 

[swsaltwater]

Phish I am sure we are only within a few years of the Wholesalers doing just that. And within 3-5 years of Cites/Government stopping everything from the wild. Aquaculture is the future.