Drs. Foster and Smith in Target Stores Near You

[Kalkbreath]

I'm really not sure what B&M's are so worried about because they will always have customers that etail won't have. .

It costs a lot of money to be in a brick and mortar, to be in the publics face as they go about their day to day lives. It costs a lot of dollars to be in a position to create hobbyists. And creating hobbyists is what its all about.
Price wise its not possible to compete with low over head e-tailers.
And from what Ive heard even etailers dont make money.
From a cost perspective, the three fish stores in my area of Atlanta have a combined expenses of over 27 thousand bucks a month JUST IN RENT! Thats a higher rental expense then any of the wholesalers in LOS Angeles.

When online stores steal customers , not having to share in the cost of creating hobbyists is an unfair advantage. Its like pirating software or movies. It costs 200 million to make a flick and 20 cents for some SOB tto make a dvd copy of it.
Mark my words: the music industry is on its last leg, the web has sucked out all the profits in making music.
A few more gigs of dSL bandwith and when the average American can down load a full feature HD film for free on the web, bypassing the movie houses altogether......the film industry will not have the profits to produce big films.

Imagine if High schools and Collage team sports weren't around and didn't generate interest in professional sports. If pro teams had to create ball players out of the average Joe on the street. How much more would teams be forces to raise ticket prices if the farm leagues had to do what schools and little league does with weeding out prospective future stars from the masses.

 

[Race]

Kalk.
No I do not care. Expansion of the hobby is not my objective,-- improving it is. There will always be Fish Stores and Etailers and the hobby will take care of itself. I do not even care if the hobby decreases in size-- as long as it improves. There will always be a source for the hobbyist as long as importation is legal. The smaller the industry remains, the more likely it can sustain itself and remain legal. Big is not better in the eyes of the lawmakers,--- stay under the radar screen. With the hysteria surrounding global warming and resultant pressures on the reefs there will be no argument that we should harvest more coral, especially for profit. Will never happen IMO.

 

[gdw]

... And creating hobbyists is what its all about. ...

The last semi-believable industry statistics that I've seen (~1998) asserted that approximately 50% of marine ornamental hobbyists left the hobby within 18 months of setting up their marine aquarium. If this is correct, then the fundamental issue isn't one of "creation" ... it's about retention.

And that ain't got nothing to do with B&M vs. ecommerce. :lol:



JMO

 

[Kalkbreath]

... And creating hobbyists is what its all about. ...

The last semi-believable industry statistics that I've seen (~1998) asserted that approximately 50% of marine ornamental hobbyists left the hobby within 18 months of setting up their marine aquarium. If this is correct, then the fundamental issue isn't one of "creation" ... it's about retention.

And that ain't got nothing to do with B&M vs. ecommerce. :lol:



JMO

Well sort of, old hobbyists dont really spend much money at that point of their hobby.
Its the first six months and the initial start up expenses which the bulk of the expenditures occur.
After a while its all about adding a last few cherry corals for most seasoned hobbyists.
Future exacerbating the demands on brick and mortars to replenish 50% of the hobbyists every 18 months.

 

[Race]

People leaving the hobby is probably why the industry is flat in 2007. At our Coral Conference in Wisconsin I personally spoke to two different traders who stated that they were questioning their ethics having wild caught corals in their tanks. A third told me that he would never have a wild caught in his aquarium, his objective was 100% aquaculture. If the hobby is questioning it, what do you think the public will have to say ?

 

[Race]

Kalk,
I am one of the largest sellers of fish hardgoods in the United States. By your definition,--- If the mature hobbyists are not buying these items then I must be selling to the entry level, correct ?

 

[Kalkbreath]

People leaving the hobby is probably why the industry is flat in 2007. ?

Almost half the hobbyists leave every year. whats different is that their seems to be fewer newbies to replace them.
And there are a lot less brick and mortars in most cities then past years.

 

[Race]

It is o.k. by me if there are fewer B&M. I am not sure if there are fewer hobbyists or they are spending less-- or both. My aquatic sales are up from last year, while the industry appears flat. Reach your own conclusions. Changing buying habits maybe ? Anyone ?

 

[Kalkbreath]

Kalk,
I am one of the largest sellers of fish hardgoods in the United States. By your definition,--- If the mature hobbyists are not buying these items then I must be selling to the entry level, correct ?

Well , middle ground.
Hobbyists who already set up their first tank (purchased at Big box or B& M).
Hobbyist who are adding items or up grading from the initial starter gear. ( petco brand) because they now realize after witnessing how the original set up isnt really the best and spending three hours at the local fish store talking with the employee there, that they need better equipment .
Only the customer now orders the items on line instead of the local pet store because its cheaper.

So the local store paid its employee 36 buck (3x$12perhour wages),talking to the customer
the over head on the retail store front was about 20 bucks (for three hours of rent and electric)
only to have the customer hand his money over to a online shopping cart.!

 

[Race]

Kalk,
Shouldn't your beef be with the customer or the system? Seems to me they have the right to hand their business to any place they choose. Don't you do that in everyday life? You are fighting a losing battle with progress. I am not going away and neither is the internet. Your customers are the only things going away and that is because someone else is giving them what they desire.
All of your comments are just complaints with the system.

 

[Kalkbreath]

Kalk,
I am not going away and neither is the internet.

Yes, but the hobbyists might be!

 

[Kalkbreath]

Kalk,
I am not going away and neither is the internet.

Yes, but the hobbyists seem to be!

 

[swsaltwater]

Nothing pisses me off more then the customer that takes up what can add up to hours of my time or my employees time then goes online to save a few bucks, often never even asking for a price match. I actually refuse service to them going forward, even after they get "dropship ick" and want help fixing it. I know I might get a few bucks from them in the future but for the most part they won't buy enough stuff local to make up for the time they take.
Had one guy pick my brain every week on a fish or coral then one day slipped up and told me a list of items in his tank. Pretty much everything I recommended the 4-5 weeks prior bought online. Told him to get lost and don't come back. He spent maybe 20 bucks and got at least $200 in advice. LFS's need to simply weed them out and ban them so the employees can concentrate top notch service on the good customers.................Heck I have even seen hobbyist rip into people like this in online forums as they know it hurts the LFS's.

 

[Race]

The hobbyist can do as they choose. If they stay, I will work for them. If the hobby folds, I will look for enjoyment elsewhere. The whole world might end but I am not going to worry about that either,--- others can.

Good night

 

[Race]

Sw,
Our posts crossed so one more. I mentioned before that the vast majority of Foster and Smith/Liveaquaria phone calls and emails are for information only, not an order.

The difference between the two of us is that it tweeks you, but I am happy to provide the service.

 

[swsaltwater]

I would glady work with them if I was a millionare Race, fact is most LFS owners are not there to BS, shoot the breeze, and hand out free advice. Maybe you have been too rich for too long to see it from our eyes.........I gotta make the bills and payroll every month...... It does not tweek me as I simply identify them, deal with it, and move on.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm really not sure what B&M's are so worried about because they will always have customers that etail won't have. .

It costs a lot of money to be in a brick and mortar, to be in the publics face as they go about their day to day lives. It costs a lot of dollars to be in a position to create hobbyists. And creating hobbyists is what its all about.

Creating hobbyists may be what it is all about for B&M's. And, if that is the case, shouldn't B&M's focus on that market?

Personally, I think the growth model and the volume model for live animals is not a good thing and wouldn't mind seeing it change.

Price wise its not possible to compete with low over head e-tailers.

You betcha - so from a business standpoint why try?

When online stores steal customers , not having to share in the cost of creating hobbyists is an unfair advantage.
Its like pirating software or movies. It costs 200 million to make a flick and 20 cents for some SOB tto make a dvd copy of it.
Mark my words: the music industry is on its last leg, the web has sucked out all the profits in making music.
A few more gigs of dSL bandwith and when the average American can down load a full feature HD film for free on the web, bypassing the movie houses altogether......the film industry will not have the profits to produce big films.

And if that happens, they will have to adapt or go out of business. Isn't that the way the free market works? Don't we already see the film and music industry adapting? The music industry as it was in the 80's and 90's may be on its last leg, but the 'new version' music industry is booming via things like itunes and online sales.

Imagine if High schools and Collage team sports weren't around and didn't generate interest in professional sports. If pro teams had to create ball players out of the average Joe on the street. How much more would teams be forces to raise ticket prices if the farm leagues had to do what schools and little league does with weeding out prospective future stars from the masses.

Then that market would have to adapt or die. One way to adapt would be to stop paying the players and corporate owners the insane salaries they have been getting.

 

[Anonymous]

Nothing pisses me off more then the customer that takes up what can add up to hours of my time or my employees time then goes online to save a few bucks, often never even asking for a price match. I actually refuse service to them going forward, even after they get "dropship ick" and want help fixing it. I know I might get a few bucks from them in the future but for the most part they won't buy enough stuff local to make up for the time they take.
Had one guy pick my brain every week on a fish or coral then one day slipped up and told me a list of items in his tank. Pretty much everything I recommended the 4-5 weeks prior bought online. Told him to get lost and don't come back. He spent maybe 20 bucks and got at least $200 in advice. LFS's need to simply weed them out and ban them so the employees can concentrate top notch service on the good customers.................Heck I have even seen hobbyist rip into people like this in online forums as they know it hurts the LFS's.

The free advice problem has been a problem since at least when I started working at LFS in the 80's - only then it wasn't that the customers went online, they went to the cheaper LFS down the street or across town.
Is there a better way to offer service? I heard of a store that thought about charging admission to scare off looky loos, but I don't know if they went through with it.

 

[just dave]

Just dave,
I have stated twice before on this board that less than 5% of our livestock die during shipping and within the 14 day guarantee period ( 30 day on aquacultured coral). It is most likely something less than that as not everyone is truthful. Given the fact that the dropshipped fish are shipped only ONE time ( one acclimation from wholesaler to hobbyist ) this is perhaps less than a LFS that has two acclimations involved. Wholesalers shipping to retailers do have DOA claims from the LFS. On top of that LFS have warranty claims from their customers. On top of that there are is the in store mortality. Is all of that less than 5 % ? Perhaps someone can enlighten us here. Do not try and fool us as most of our professional staff ran or worked in private retail fish stores.

While my post that you are replying to seems to be directed at you it was mostly just "talking" out loud about concerns I have ( I should have clarified that.) I was curious as to how others felt as well. I have no beef with Dr's F&S. I'm sure the warranty claims you receive and the subsequent statistics are biased as it as a certainty that some of them are fraudulent. 5% is probably awesome for a company the size of yours.

 

[Race]

Just Dave,
Your post on retention is one of the best on this entire thread.

Kalk,
The largest selling SKU's for any internet livestock seller are the simple livestock packages. This is a fact. Do you think the advanced aquarist is the purchaser of these ? The starter nano type packages are one of the number one selling items for the hardgoods selling etailer. Do you think the advanced hobbyist is the major market here ? This is a fact as well and every industry vendor will vouch that such is the case.

Let the poorly run B&M and Etailers fall and the hobby will be serviced by the new world survivors.