You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Les and Serangan
- Thread starter PeterIMA
- Start date
PeterIMA":33eehf3k said:It looks like Bigfoot is using a handnet with the wrong netting material.
Without the ability to understand local customs and without knowledge of local dialects spoken by humans in Indonesia and PI, foreign NGOs face debacle. That is why CCIF, MAC, and Reefcheck have failed.
Peter
Peter,
What about IMA-Philippines ? You guys were in the Philippines for many years
working the net training and the cyanide detection test, today the problem in the Philippines is still there. Please show IMA's success. IMA-Philippines was a mix of foreign and local people.
Jaime
Peter,
So.........! The fact is that after many years of IMA's work, the cyanide problem is still there, and no cdt in place to control its use within the trade.
I wouldn't call that success.. would you? It doesn't matter if you are dealing with foreigns or locals .... IMA was a good example of it.
Peter........Feliz Navidad
So.........! The fact is that after many years of IMA's work, the cyanide problem is still there, and no cdt in place to control its use within the trade.
I wouldn't call that success.. would you? It doesn't matter if you are dealing with foreigns or locals .... IMA was a good example of it.
Peter........Feliz Navidad
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Hey guys,
cool it, its Christmas!
Dearest friends,
Wishing you all a joyous Christmas and a very happy New Year full of hope.
Best regards,
Steve Robinson & family
Cortez Marine
cool it, its Christmas!
Dearest friends,
Wishing you all a joyous Christmas and a very happy New Year full of hope.
Best regards,
Steve Robinson & family
Cortez Marine
Peter,
During the late 90s and early 2000s IMA got considerable funding to tackle the cyanide problem in the Philippines, IMA's people in the Phi. did a good work in net training, environmental education and the cdt. Economic resources were there and IMA had the credibility to do it. Years later we see that we are still talking about the same problem. IMA had the money to do it. What happened with IMA in the Philippines?.
Today, you are saying that it is easy with EASTI. What is EASTI doing different to make things easier?
Jaime
During the late 90s and early 2000s IMA got considerable funding to tackle the cyanide problem in the Philippines, IMA's people in the Phi. did a good work in net training, environmental education and the cdt. Economic resources were there and IMA had the credibility to do it. Years later we see that we are still talking about the same problem. IMA had the money to do it. What happened with IMA in the Philippines?.
Today, you are saying that it is easy with EASTI. What is EASTI doing different to make things easier?
Jaime
Jaime,
EASTI is doing the trainings and assisting villages with exports as explained in the postings.
EASTI is participating in the Cyanide Detection Workshop to be held in Orlando, February 7-8, 2008.
EASTI will present talks at the Sustainability Symposium that will be part of the Marine Ornamentals Conference to be held in Lake Bueno Vista FL
February 9-12, 2008.
Peter
EASTI is doing the trainings and assisting villages with exports as explained in the postings.
EASTI is participating in the Cyanide Detection Workshop to be held in Orlando, February 7-8, 2008.
EASTI will present talks at the Sustainability Symposium that will be part of the Marine Ornamentals Conference to be held in Lake Bueno Vista FL
February 9-12, 2008.
Peter
Peter,
The only different thing EASTI is doing is assisting with exports, role that can be difficult considering the absence of key information, as for example who is the supplier of the fish in North America.
The rest is just future time, meaning that has not happened. Man will be in Mars...... soon.
What happened to IMA-Philippines?
The only different thing EASTI is doing is assisting with exports, role that can be difficult considering the absence of key information, as for example who is the supplier of the fish in North America.
The rest is just future time, meaning that has not happened. Man will be in Mars...... soon.
What happened to IMA-Philippines?
Please correct me if I"m wrong, but it is my understanding that the cyanide "law" was written with a detection limit such that it was almost impossible to get a fish to test with a high enough positive to prosecute, even if the tester knew the fish had been caught with cyanide. Pretty sure I have seen that posted here in previous arguements on the subject.
In any event, I think we all know large sums of money can't fix problems when there are high amounts of government corruption and and a large lack of interest in fixing the problem by both exporters AND importers.
Even if you clean up the cyanide 100% tomorrow, you still have the horrible handling fish are getting these days. Fish stayed alive better 15 years ago than they do now, and everyone says cyanide use is less than it was then. Put some training into husbandry and quit just focusing on one side of the problem.
In any event, I think we all know large sums of money can't fix problems when there are high amounts of government corruption and and a large lack of interest in fixing the problem by both exporters AND importers.
Even if you clean up the cyanide 100% tomorrow, you still have the horrible handling fish are getting these days. Fish stayed alive better 15 years ago than they do now, and everyone says cyanide use is less than it was then. Put some training into husbandry and quit just focusing on one side of the problem.
Jeremy, There are laws in PI, Indo, and Vietnam against the use of cyanide for cyanide fishing. With respect to Philippine law, there is no lower detection limit in any legislation. Any level can be used as evidence to support prosecution of offenders.
Peter
Peter
JeremyR,
You are right. Even if cyanide is cleaned 100% by tomorrow, there are serious problems related to handling and holding at every level of the trade in exporting countries, mainly Phi, Ind, and other developing countries.
The cyanide problem is not only related to physiological damage on fish, but most important, its impact on coral reefs. No a trace of cyanide should be allowed in the collection of MO.
Peter has more information regarding concentration of CN in tested fish. It is true that tested fish with readings of CN lower than a certain concentration are considered negative.
jaime
You are right. Even if cyanide is cleaned 100% by tomorrow, there are serious problems related to handling and holding at every level of the trade in exporting countries, mainly Phi, Ind, and other developing countries.
The cyanide problem is not only related to physiological damage on fish, but most important, its impact on coral reefs. No a trace of cyanide should be allowed in the collection of MO.
Peter has more information regarding concentration of CN in tested fish. It is true that tested fish with readings of CN lower than a certain concentration are considered negative.
jaime
I also often wonder just how much care is possible when the wholesaler wants to have firefish on special for 2.99 week in & week out. The continual pressure on price while demanding higher quality is something that isn't going to work out... I imagine telling the collector to do better while paying him less doesn't go very far.
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
firefish on special for 2.99 week in & week out. The continual pressure on price while demanding higher quality is something that isn't going to work out...
Quite right !
And thats why the appeals to higher consumer compassion do not work.
Rarely have, hardly ever will.... except in the lone case of dolphin safe tuna and to a lesser degree girl scout cookies.
The theoretical linking of a higher cash price to drive compassion in the marketplace is a notion in search of a reality.
Geez, you can't even reach peoples hearts here about genocide in Rwanda or Dafur...
Just what innate goodness among citizens of the Walmart Nation is going to work in improving the aquarium fish chain of custody ?
This eco-labeling nonsense has burned up a decade of time the reefs did not have.
Steve
JeremyR":3riawiro said:I also often wonder just how much care is possible when the wholesaler wants to have firefish on special for 2.99 week in & week out. The continual pressure on price while demanding higher quality is something that isn't going to work out... I imagine telling the collector to do better while paying him less doesn't go very far.
Those fish buyers don't care about the quality of the fish and that's the kind of deals the majority of hobbyists are looking for.
Jaime
I am optimistic that there still are funding agencies willing to support solutions that benefit the village fishers/collectors and the aquarium trade. So, I am optimistic that improvements to the trade in marine ornementals will occur in the coming year.
Peter
Peter
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Peter,I am also optimistic that there still are funding agencies willing to support solutions that benefit the village fishers/collectors and the aquarium trade
I am too and hope that the top-down theories of eco-social development have run their course.
Groups who fear contact with people at the village level need to just go away and leave the issue alone.
Pro village people can make a great deal more progress.
Steve
Sponsor Reefs
We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.
Click here to sponsor $10:
