Question for DR Imports
- Thread starter dizzy
- Start date
- Location
- Coral Gables, FL
Very interesting thread you guys have going here. There were requests for some other retailers to chime in, so here I am. I run a small online website called Reef Gardener.
I'm located in Miami and have purchased from Bob and the other suppliers locally for a few years now.
As far as fish go, my main observation as to fish mortality rates are: A. many types of fish have a very hard time recovering from a 2 day transit time as well as the lack of food for probably over a week B. Some wholesalers don't care that the water quality where the new fish are going isn't that great, because they plan to have them sold and shipped out quickly.
Most of the mortality I have had from purchasing fish over the years has been from poor water quality/infections in suppliers tanks as well as tanks being super medicated and then the fish dieing when introduced to normal water. I'm sure a few have also been from cyanide, but its very hard to know for sure, short of disecting the fish.
Also, many of the retailers in my area (I doubt its the only place in the US like that) have terrible water quality in their holding tanks. Many people overcrowd the fish which causes extreme stress, they dose high amounts of copper in their tanks which can cause fish to die in a very similar manner to cyanide captured fish, they put aggressive fish with passive fish, etc, etc.
Same thing for corals, transhiped corals usually come a bit stressed out; well if the water quality in your system is poor and the nitrates are sky high, you are going to see high coral mortality. So the fault cannot rest solely on the suppliers/collectors.
But I have noticed in the past two years some of my local suppliers have improved their holding tanks and practices to ensure healthier fish. I've never been much of a fish seller because corals are much more profitable for me, but I have had good success with most of the fish I have purchased from DRI over the years. His fish systems have definately improved since moving to his new location with more attention paid to the uv/filtration systems.
I have tried very hard to educate my customers on what corals/fish should not be purchased/require advanced care. I have noticed a lot of positive changes in the hobby since I have been involved; more maricultured corals, less collection of advanced care species, better fish and coral holding systems, better hobbyist education, etc.
There is still a lot of room for improvement. I think one thing that makes this hobby hard to improve/grow past bad habits is that anyone can open a store and sell fish/corals. Many of the people that own stores are not hobbyists and in most cases know less about the products they're selling then the people who are buying them. So thats why I still see magenta colt corals, lemon yellow turbinaria/toadstool leathers, and many types of fish/inverts that even most advanced aquarists can't keep.
But who's fault is this? Should the retailers be responsible or the wholesalers? Should the government develop stricter licensing laws? Should there be more government and industry funded public education programs?
It is a tough question, but until we as an industry are able to come up with some good answers and implementation prcatices there is going to be a constant fight between those that say we are raping the reefs and others that say we are doing no harm.
Fish and Wildlife recently released an aquaculture info sheet (no luck finding it on the web, sigh) with aquarium trade statistics on the bottom saying something like 85-90% of all the marine life imported into the U.S. dies before reaching hobbists aquariums. These are the types of rumors and biased mentality we have to work against. I mean as far as they're concerned we're all out to pillage the reefs until there is nothing left.
Our company is focusing more on aquaculture especially since coral sales aren't as great as they could be and if you have space efficient propagation systems and good lighting, it doesn't cost that much to grow corals. I think it is one of the best ways to go since the gov't is hellbent on restricting everything and making imports more difficult.
Since corals are only going to become more expensive as the cost of gas goes up, I think wholesalers are going to have to upgrade their systems so they can hold/maintain marine creatures for longer periods of time and demand better collections practices from collector's in the S Pacific and elsewhere in order to disprove the ongoing negative rumors about the aquarium trade.
Morgan
I'm located in Miami and have purchased from Bob and the other suppliers locally for a few years now.
As far as fish go, my main observation as to fish mortality rates are: A. many types of fish have a very hard time recovering from a 2 day transit time as well as the lack of food for probably over a week B. Some wholesalers don't care that the water quality where the new fish are going isn't that great, because they plan to have them sold and shipped out quickly.
Most of the mortality I have had from purchasing fish over the years has been from poor water quality/infections in suppliers tanks as well as tanks being super medicated and then the fish dieing when introduced to normal water. I'm sure a few have also been from cyanide, but its very hard to know for sure, short of disecting the fish.
Also, many of the retailers in my area (I doubt its the only place in the US like that) have terrible water quality in their holding tanks. Many people overcrowd the fish which causes extreme stress, they dose high amounts of copper in their tanks which can cause fish to die in a very similar manner to cyanide captured fish, they put aggressive fish with passive fish, etc, etc.
Same thing for corals, transhiped corals usually come a bit stressed out; well if the water quality in your system is poor and the nitrates are sky high, you are going to see high coral mortality. So the fault cannot rest solely on the suppliers/collectors.
But I have noticed in the past two years some of my local suppliers have improved their holding tanks and practices to ensure healthier fish. I've never been much of a fish seller because corals are much more profitable for me, but I have had good success with most of the fish I have purchased from DRI over the years. His fish systems have definately improved since moving to his new location with more attention paid to the uv/filtration systems.
I have tried very hard to educate my customers on what corals/fish should not be purchased/require advanced care. I have noticed a lot of positive changes in the hobby since I have been involved; more maricultured corals, less collection of advanced care species, better fish and coral holding systems, better hobbyist education, etc.
There is still a lot of room for improvement. I think one thing that makes this hobby hard to improve/grow past bad habits is that anyone can open a store and sell fish/corals. Many of the people that own stores are not hobbyists and in most cases know less about the products they're selling then the people who are buying them. So thats why I still see magenta colt corals, lemon yellow turbinaria/toadstool leathers, and many types of fish/inverts that even most advanced aquarists can't keep.
But who's fault is this? Should the retailers be responsible or the wholesalers? Should the government develop stricter licensing laws? Should there be more government and industry funded public education programs?
It is a tough question, but until we as an industry are able to come up with some good answers and implementation prcatices there is going to be a constant fight between those that say we are raping the reefs and others that say we are doing no harm.
Fish and Wildlife recently released an aquaculture info sheet (no luck finding it on the web, sigh) with aquarium trade statistics on the bottom saying something like 85-90% of all the marine life imported into the U.S. dies before reaching hobbists aquariums. These are the types of rumors and biased mentality we have to work against. I mean as far as they're concerned we're all out to pillage the reefs until there is nothing left.
Our company is focusing more on aquaculture especially since coral sales aren't as great as they could be and if you have space efficient propagation systems and good lighting, it doesn't cost that much to grow corals. I think it is one of the best ways to go since the gov't is hellbent on restricting everything and making imports more difficult.
Since corals are only going to become more expensive as the cost of gas goes up, I think wholesalers are going to have to upgrade their systems so they can hold/maintain marine creatures for longer periods of time and demand better collections practices from collector's in the S Pacific and elsewhere in order to disprove the ongoing negative rumors about the aquarium trade.
Morgan
PeterIMA":2d5fl3eg said:
PeterIMA":2d5fl3eg said:
Allegedly.
As to why DNR did not fund your study, there could be other explanations. They could have preferred to investigate the matter themselves instead of "subcontracting" it out. They could have thought the rumors were so without merit as to not warrant an investigation. Or, any number of other explanations.
PeterIMA":187zr97x said:
I don't think anybody could get away with cyanide these days - somebody here would notice it blow the whistle. The aquarium industry is small enough that word would get around before too long. We're all pretty sensitive to destructive fishing practices, since they affect everybody's ability to make a living.
The clorox thing has been an on and off problem for a long time - it is highly illegal, is taken very seriously by the authorities, and every few years some people are arrested for it. However, this was never an issue with aquarium fish; only food fish. Bleach is highly toxic and kills the fish too quickly; it wouldn't be of any use even for the most unscrupulous of collectors. Still, people like to jump to conclusions and associate chemical fishing with the aquarium trade.
I'm not surprised Hawaii DLNR didn't fund your study. They don't have a lot of money and aren't likely to spend it on issues that are not real problems.
Wow! That Filipino diver sure own a very big “banca”. Just imagine the amount of water that separate PI and Hawaii. You never ceased ability to put Filipino and cyanide in one sentence. But on the second thought, I think you’re better off honing your ability to write a good project study so that you can funnel more grant money towards you. Or maybe those who grant funds are simply tired of your whining about nothing.PeterIMA":pqxhifjl said:
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