High DOA Fish

[Anonymous]

I am interviewing a Banggai breeder in San Diego in the next week or so. His name is Ryan Greathouse, and he is selling to at least one LA area retailer that has announced they are no longer going to sell wild caught Banggais. I'm impressed with him so far, although I don't know how many he intends to rear.

Have you visited MOFIB.org? About a billion people raising bangaiis now.

 

[Ret_Talbot]

I am interviewing a Banggai breeder in San Diego in the next week or so. His name is Ryan Greathouse, and he is selling to at least one LA area retailer that has announced they are no longer going to sell wild caught Banggais. I'm impressed with him so far, although I don't know how many he intends to rear.

Have you visited MOFIB.org? About a billion people raising bangaiis now.

Yes I have. It's great! It's just a shame that so many places still choose to offer wild-caught Banggai's for such a low price.

 

[naesco]

I am interviewing a Banggai breeder in San Diego in the next week or so. His name is Ryan Greathouse, and he is selling to at least one LA area retailer that has announced they are no longer going to sell wild caught Banggais. I'm impressed with him so far, although I don't know how many he intends to rear.

Have you visited MOFIB.org? About a billion people raising bangaiis now.

So why does industry continue to import wild banggais?

 

[Ret_Talbot]

I am interviewing a Banggai breeder in San Diego in the next week or so. His name is Ryan Greathouse, and he is selling to at least one LA area retailer that has announced they are no longer going to sell wild caught Banggais. I'm impressed with him so far, although I don't know how many he intends to rear.

Have you visited MOFIB.org? About a billion people raising bangaiis now.

So why does industry continue to import wild banggais?

Well.....it's not really rocket science. They are cheaper, and there is not enough education about them amongst hobbyists. Also, we of course need wilds for good brrod stock, but that's a different issue altogether.

 

[naesco]

Perhaps as part of your interviews you can determine the wholesale cost of wild vs net caught.
I think you will find that the difference is pennies.
In other words, industry cares not about the decline in the species only the pennies they save.

Sad, eh

 

[brandonberry]

Well I haven't seen any threads of anyone with thousands of Banggais that they need to sell and can't so I'm guessing the issue is that even though there are a lot of fish being bred it is still not enough yet to meet overall demand. Simple economics will tell you that when this point is reached, the price will drop to a point at which captive bred fish are cheaper than wild fish and the collection will be greatly reduced. Breeders would still be willing to pay more for wild caught fish, however the amount taken for this purpose would be minimal. My question would be which, if any, of these scenarios is currently taking place:

1. Demand is level and the captive raised fish have releived some of the pressure off wild caught fish allowing numbers to begin to recover.

2. Demand has increased and captive fish have not reduced the amount of wild caught fish taken but have only kept the amount from rising even more.

3. Wild caught fish populations have dropped so much that captive bred fish are only filling the demand that is no longer able to be met by wild caught fish because of the inability to find them in sufficient quantities.

 

[swsaltwater]

I think we still need wild for now to boost genetic viability, sooner or later I think we will have enough if proper breeding practices are followed. We are tracking our genetics lines.

 

[JeremyR]

3. is a joke.. come on, they are selling them for $3.00 wholesale. Supply & demand dictates that if the fish was really endangered and the supply was greatly reduced, the price wouldn't be at an all time low. No matter how many of these fish are raised, it will never be economically feasable to sell them for $3.00. I give my local breeder $12.00 for the fish, and that is a couple bux less than what commercial facilities want for the limited # they raise. I would bet the farm that the amount being CB is just a drop in the bucket compared to what the demand is, and this isn't going to change as long as 104th keeps whoring them out at 3.00.

 

[dizzy]

For sake of argument, it is only fair to point out that the people who live in the area (Bangaii Archipelago) these cardinals come from, have as much right to profit off them as someone who buys and breeds them. Despite people ringing the alarm bell, the numbers coming from the wild appear to be holding steady and as Scott Michael notes in Basslets,Dottybacks & Hawkfishes page 257, Bangaii Cardinalfish are now found in Lembeh Strait. There is a nice bit of information on Bangaii Cardinals in the book.

And for the record we breed a few of the Bangaii Cardinals here in the store. The picture of the babies was taken just now, on June 17th, the babies are 5-days old. The orange in the stomach is from live baby brine. If I do buy any wild Bangaii I try and get them from Dave at PAF. His are a bit higher, but generally have a very high survival rate.

 

[Anonymous]

But since that book there has been a lot more activity in researching the numbers and the distribution of the fish. Think Red LIst here

 

[PeterIMA]

Both Dr. Andrew Bruckner and Dr. Vagelli spoke about Banggai Cardinals at the MO08 meeting held in Lake Bueno Vista February 9-11, 2008. Dr. Vagelli was involved with the survey that showed Banggai Cardinals were being over exploited. The main problem is the rough handling and the high mortality associated with transportation of the Banggai Cardinals by boat back to Bali.

Dr. Vagelli has proposed a program including protected areas and species conservation. Recommendations to list the Banggai with CITES were opposed by the Indonesian government. IUCN does list Banggai Cardinals as threatened. The MAC recently announced that they will focus their training programs on the Banggai Islands/Ambon area where Banggai Cardinals are found.

Peter

 

[RichardS]

So why does industry continue to import wild banggais?

You seem to have a hard time understanding that it's the consumers who ultimately decide what people in the industry do. I rarely stocked cb banggais, just special ordered them for a few people. Most wouldn't even think about buying them for $30 since the other LFS's were selling wc's for $8.99.

 

[JeremyR]

We probably sell less total cardinals at $25 than we would if we sold wild caught, but we sell enough. There are plenty of people who have bought their share of $12-15 wild cardinals that died who are willing to pay extra for fish that they have seen stay alive in our store visit after visit. But honestly, as long as LA sells them for 3 bucks it's just not worth it for most people to raise them.

 

[Anonymous]

So why does industry continue to import wild banggais?

You seem to have a hard time understanding that it's the consumers who ultimately decide what people in the industry do.

I don't think it is that simple, and both vendors and consumers decide what the industry does. If the 'industry' didn't offer cheap wc bangaii's, consumers couldn't buy them. I don't believe that consumers are demanding cheap wild bangaiis, rather that cheap wild bangaiis are available to buy.

I rarely stocked cb banggais, just special ordered them for a few people. Most wouldn't even think about buying them for $30 since the other LFS's were selling wc's for $8.99.

Yep. As long as there are rock bottom LFS it will be harder for other LFS to charge more. Those LFS could choose to sell the wild's for more than 8.99 if they wanted to, but many seem to be under the impression that volume sales will make them more money.

 

[Anonymous]

For sake of argument, it is only fair to point out that the people who live in the area (Bangaii Archipelago) these cardinals come from, have as much right to profit off them as someone who buys and breeds them.

I felt that bore repeating. The folks on the CB bandwagon don't seem to appreciate that other end of the equation.

 

[JeremyR]

I would agree with that more if they didn't mostly all die, but right now they are just wasting a resource.

 

[Anonymous]

How so? Seriously, what difference does it make if it's a food fish or a decoration? Once it's gone it's gone.

 

[Anonymous]

Because they seem to be collecting them faster than they can reproduce.

 

[Anonymous]

For sake of argument, it is only fair to point out that the people who live in the area (Bangaii Archipelago) these cardinals come from, have as much right to profit off them as someone who buys and breeds them.

I felt that bore repeating. The folks on the CB bandwagon don't seem to appreciate that other end of the equation.

Watch the binary broad brush because the world is more interesting that that.

Of course they have a right to try to profit, at the same time, with wc bangaii mortality so high and the fish seeming to become endangered in its native habitat it becomes harder to support the wc animals.

 

[JeremyR]

Even if it's not endangered, what's the point in collecting, handling, shipping, if you are going to lose most of them? It doesn't do the hobby any good, and the fish would not have been eaten otherwise.. it's not a food fish. So, the resource is wasted. Last I checked, being wasteful was a bad thing.

Common sense is something nobody seems to have anymore.