Tonga Thread on RC

[StevenPro]

Anyone care to comment on this thread,
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showt ... id=1426393

I recall hearing a few months back that Tonga was shutdown due to CITES paperwork issues, but had not heard about the rumors spreading over there.

 

[swsaltwater]

I was told by fishheads it was resolved from Tonga, but not sure about Haiti.

 

[IconicAquariums]

I was told by fishheads it was resolved from Tonga, but not sure about Haiti.

the CITES issue was. Haiti was resolved also, only meaning no rock.

perhaps someone on 104th can shed some light.

Nice post by the genius on RC btw :roll:

 

[naesco]

Yes Steven

When US industry sanctions and supports exporters who cut corners to save pennies so the importers get the benefit we all lose.

I hope those responsible are investigated and if charges are warranted, face the harshest penalties under the laws of Tonga.

The posters in the RC thread make excellent points (save the red white and blue one.)

 

[Anonymous]

I hope those responsible are investigated and if charges are warranted, face the harshest penalties under the laws of Tonga.

:lol:

 

[naesco]

I hope those responsible are investigated and if charges are warranted, face the harshest penalties under the laws of Tonga.

:lol:

Steven asked for a comment and you post a smilely.

Does this mean that you do not think that those involved in the destruction of the reef will be punished?

 

[Caterham]

Naesco,

Thanks so much for your contributions to this thread.

Unfortunately, with absolutely zero past or current involvement in the trade of marine ornamentals there are some folks here is this community that might take your comments somewhat lightly.

I respect your efforts and hope that you continue to stay involved. All good teams have people cheering for them on the sidelines, out of play.

Warmest regards

 

[naesco]

Instead of questioning my committment and involvement in the industry and hobby, why don't you gather the courage to post your credentials in the "Industry Who's Who thread at the beginning of the forum as I and others have done.

Thank you
Wayne Ryan

 

[Anonymous]

I hope those responsible are investigated and if charges are warranted, face the harshest penalties under the laws of Tonga.

:lol:

Steven asked for a comment and you post a smilely.

Does this mean that you do not think that those involved in the destruction of the reef will be punished?

Ummmmm... he's laughing at the quote in his post Ever been to Tonga? Are you aware of the way things work there? It sure sounds like a BIG NO to both other wise you would have never posted that :lol:

 

[RichardS]

Here is the story from Walt Smith...
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showt ... id=1437433

Hi All,
Since I was asked to weigh in on this issue and possibly shine some light on the facts I am happy to oblige.
It is true; the rock ban goes into effect on August 4th. Our only hope at this point is a proposal I have sent to Fisheries that outlines a more feasible phase out period.
In a letter sent to all the shippers (informing them of the ban) they were of the view that cultured rock could easily replace the harvest because the “technology already exist”. What they did not take into account was the fact that cultured rock must first be made and then put into the ocean for about 18 months before it is any good. Buying all of the raw materials such as cement, pumice, sand, iron oxide and a cement mixer plus all the labor is very expensive over the course of 18 months with no income to support this activity.
I have suggested a two year phase out period with the operator showing proof of aquaculture involvement and investment by January 09. If any one operator does not show proof then no further export permits will be issued to that operator.
I feel very used in this scenario because at the end of last year I was asked by fisheries to come over and give a presentation to them on how I grow corals and make live rock in Fiji. They asked many questions after my presentation and I felt encouraged that the bill to allow aquaculture would finally be passed because at that point it was not yet legal.
Well, to make a long story short, they used that presentation against the industry stating that “the technology already exist” and went on to impose the ban as soon as aquaculture was made legal. What I mean by legal is that there was no format, rules or protocol in the fisheries guidelines that had been passed by cabinet at that point so it was not allowed.
The result is no more live rock and 50% reduction on the coral quota.
I was also called into the National Economic Development Council last April to give a presentation to cabinet members on the sustainability of our export. Once they were satisfied with my report they ordered fisheries to carry out a resource assessment and environmental impact study BEFORE any bans were put in place. Fisheries ignored this demand (which is highly unusual) and did what they wanted anyway. They said that they already had the proof they needed. …… this is where your stories originate from.
A long, long time ago in a far away land named Tonga there was a fish and coral exporter and life was good. Soon there came other exporters and life got a little more complicated. Some exporters were good and some only interested in cashing in on some mystical good life. Ok back to reality!
There soon were 5 exporters with three fairly stable operations and experienced personnel. One of the other operators had plenty of trouble staying alive and the business changed hands several times with each change more and more desperate and unsustainable acts took place. The fifth company arrived made a big splash with lots of divers, big boats and illegal immigrants (over the amount allowed) and broke all sorts of rules getting some negative attention from fisheries.
Fisheries then gave permission for one of these two operators to set up a coral farm right under their noses at the fisheries facility. This “farm” was established by bringing in some “expert” from a fish store in the states and really making a mess. Just a bunch of broken off pieces of coral scattered around in the tanks so that they could be exempt from the coral quota the rest of us had to adhere to. After about a year they realized that they had a mountain of dead coral right outside their back door and started to take pictures of the damage. To make matters worse, this inexperienced “expert” went on the web (I think here) and started showing off horrifying pictures of himself walking all over the reef and holding up massive pieces of coral. This really concerned me as he was bringing all the wrong sort attention to our industry and a very uninformed, unsustainable practice was carried out right under their nose.
This is when they brought me in to demonstrate what a real coral farm should look like. I remember them asking me questions about the “farm” at their facility as if they doubted the validity of those efforts as only a ploy to evade quota restrictions. Since I did set them straight with my presentation and movie it is a shame they used this as an excuse to shut a totally viable and sustainable industry down.
About the insensitive comments regarding the workers this will present a huge problem to the economy. Since they burned the town down in 19 months ago unemployment is out of control … there simply are no jobs to be had. The Tongan government will not realize about 8 million in export trade, the countries second largest export and Air New Zealand is threatening to pull the direct flight making it very difficult to travel to and from Tonga. Once the direct flight is gone it will also be very difficult to ship whatever coral and fish we are allowed. I suspect most (if not all) exporters will simply close up shop leaving a large hole in the already fragile economy.
To answer more direct questions; our company has never been thrown out of any meeting, we only practice the most sustainable and proven methods for harvest and we continue to set the best practice examples for our industry. It is a shame that the good guys will suffer for the acts of a careless few.
Sorry for the long post but you asked for it. We are praying for a reinstatement of the policy and at least order the study and impose a reasonable phase out before August 4th or it will be too late then to do much about it.
Walt

 

[naesco]

It is a shame that the good guys will suffer for the acts of a careless few.

One of the other operators had plenty of trouble staying alive and the business changed hands several times with each change more and more desperate and unsustainable acts took place. The fifth company arrived made a big splash with lots of divers, big boats and illegal immigrants (over the amount allowed) and broke all sorts of rules getting some negative attention from fisheries.

The above two paragraphs are taken from the walt smith post above.

Industry please take note.
If you continue to allow the bad apples who you know are spoiling it for everyone, to continue operating, the closure of our industry will be imminent,

Now it will be cement aqua-rock. Next we will be left with trading brown frags amongst us.

Wake up! Find a leader amongst you and unite and form an organization that will deal with 'the dirty little secrets' before the government steps in.

 

[Anonymous]

Now it be cement aqua-rock. Next we will be left with trading brown frags amongst us.

:lol:

 

[naesco]

I do not think it is a laughing matter, Thales.
Please take the time off the board and phone a few LA importers.
The loss of Tonga rock and cutting coral harvest by half affect them.

Talk to the exporters and the fisherman in Tonga who depend on this industry for their livlihood.

Take some time off the board and visit the Philippine and Indonesian exporters and find out whether they are concerned about their future.

It is shocking to me to see that so many in industry continue to turn a blind eye to what is happening and choose to do nothing to protect their own livelihood

 

[RichardS]

Wake up! Find a leader amongst you and unite and form an organization that will deal with 'the dirty little secrets' before the government steps in.

I agree. Somebody should wake up.

 

[StevenPro]

the closure of our industry will be imminent

 

[dizzy]

Does anyone remember the name of the thread that discussed the details of the operation Walt Smith is calling the fifth company? Seems like the story had San Fran roots IIRC.

The fifth company arrived made a big splash with lots of divers, big boats and illegal immigrants (over the amount allowed) and broke all sorts of rules getting some negative attention from fisheries.
Fisheries then gave permission for one of these two operators to set up a coral farm right under their noses at the fisheries facility. This “farm” was established by bringing in some “expert” from a fish store in the states and really making a mess.

PS
Someone in the industry hiring illegal immigrants. 8O What a shock. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

The fifth company is the one I, and others, consulted for over the course of 9 months, and here is a link to the promotional video I made for them after my second trip out:

http://stickycricket.com/movies/MPEG/IMT_ERFI_promo.mov

I am now kind of embarrassed by it (and that 7 point plan speech that got forgotten when business realities hit), and never completed the longer version with the mariculture, coral collecting and packing because by my third trip things were falling apart.

Its interesting that this comes up now because I just gave a talk in Denver talking about what went right and what went wrong with the project.

I really did believe in the project, although I thankfully never invested anything but lots of time into it. I like to believe it did start with the best of intentions, but went downhill when normal business realities, Tongan business realities, and MO business realities combined to make the perfect storm of ickiness.

 

[Raskal311]

We brought in 100lb of cultured rock a few weeks ago and priced them the same as our Premium live rock and they sold out in two days…. !!!! People love them, and telling them it’s good for the ocean just makes it that much easier to sale. Just a year ago cultured rocks looked fake and ugly but the ones I see now I can’t tell the different from real rocks.

The technology is there, exporters needs harsh incentives like this to adopt them.

 

[Anonymous]

I do not think it is a laughing matter, Thales.
Please take the time off the board and phone a few LA importers.
The loss of Tonga rock and cutting coral harvest by half affect them.

Talk to the exporters and the fisherman in Tonga who depend on this industry for their livlihood.

Take some time off the board and visit the Philippine and Indonesian exporters and find out whether they are concerned about their future.

It is shocking to me to see that so many in industry continue to turn a blind eye to what is happening and choose to do nothing to protect their own livelihood

You're the laughing matter I'm afraid. Never been have you? Know anyone who's been? Talk to them, you learn something. There is a real reason why Thales keeps laughing at what you say


I'm laughing at people thinking the production of cement isn't harmful to the reef....just where do you think the cement comes from.....a big boat that drops it off for $10 an ounce, or made on the island using baked REEF!!!!

Trading brown frags.....you're so out of it. You should see what we trade, they aren't brown. Just goes to show how little you actually know about the hobby now a days.

 

[JeremyR]

I'm investing heavily in brown.. I hear it may be the next purple.