I want to buy my first coral fragment

[oro50]

Hello,
I started a new saltwater 20 L tank five months and 2 weeks ago as of today.

Currently it has one red maroon juvenile clownfish inside, as well as a small cleaner crew.

The bulbs I have are Ultra Sun Super daylight 6500k high intensity full spectrum daylight lamp and

I also have a coral blue 460NM.

I was thinking once I got this coral fragment I would switch for several hours of the day to coral blue 460NM?

I'm wondering though, if I get a coral fragment, how long should the lights be on during each day, and how many hours for each particular bulb that I have?

I also have a small cleaner crew, consisting of 1 bumblebee snail; 2 nassarus snails; 3 turbo snails; 3 cerith snails; 2 hermit crabs.

Will any members of my cleaner crew bother this coral fragment?


Lastly, for filters I am using a HOB filter for a 30 gallon tank; a fluval 106 canister filter. For extra aeration I am using a powerhead; and a small bubble wall;

I also have some cheato in my tank, not sure if this plant would bother my coral fragment at all?

Lastly this is the type of coral I am thinking of buying

either
Radioactive Zoanthid or a Pocillopora damicornus and or a Galaxea sp.


The website I'm looking at says these three types of coral fragments are easy to take care of, but where I was going to place them, (directly in the center of my tank) is first off in the sandbed, and I'm not sure if this area has good flow?

Yet anywhere where I could place any of these types of corals is probably not getting much flow, except near where my bubble wall is?

Should I place it near this bubble wall if I have to, or where I want to place it directly in the center of my tank where I think my bulb's light penetrates the brightest?

Furthermore can red maroon's deal with living with most corals? I think the answer is yes, but I'm not sure, and I read that the galaxea sp. is semi-aggressive and can throw out tentacles? Could this possibly hurt my red maroon?


Lastly,
I just literally killed off a cyanobacteria infection in my tank. I used chemi-clean. The red stains are essentially gone right now. Thus I am looking to buy one coral fragment.

I haven't made up my mind if someone has one of these types for sale, as I listed above, I'll buy them from you possibly as well? I'm hoping to just spend 15 dollars but I would go as far as 30 maybe 40 if I really liked your piece.

Thanks for any suggestions

 

[rookie07]

Get rid of the bubbler/bubble wand/bubble wall. You don't want that in a salt water tank.

Cheato and clean up crew are fine and will not bother your coral. Clean up crew may pick at a dying coral though.

For coral, stay away from SPS, and for now, stay away from LPS also.... Stay with softies for the beginning. Zoas/mushrooms/leather would work well for you.

You will need flow, that is essential to a reef tank, as coral needs flow. You should look into a in-tank pump (known as a powerhead). Your water should be somewhat violent at the surface, your tank gets oxygen in the water from water movement which has choppiness (if that makes sense, this is also why you don't need the bubble wand).
Take a look at a fee of the tanks on here. If you see a tank that looks good, check out what the owner has done for water flow/movement.

As far as obtaining coral, by from other members on here. The small frags you want will be much cheaper from a member than a store. You can also check out the "Vendor Forum" to find a local vendor to help you out with supplies and/or coral.
Or, come to me as I'll take advantage of you, i mean take care of you... I joke, but watch out for scummy people trying to screw you since your knowledge is limited!!! Always research everything for yourself, don't trust anyone who tells you anything (Including what Ive written here!!!).

Best advice you'll ever get, don't buy anything on impulse! Whatever it is, it will be there again when you're truly ready!

Good luck!!!

 

[oro50]

Thanks

Yeah that's true what you said, I do take what people tell me with a grain of salt now.

I just want one little coral fragment for now, as I have limited space in my tank and because I am testing the waters to see if I can care for coral.

There is a lot of flow on the top of my water column. The bubble wall is helping with that.

I've had it in my saltwater tank now for about three months no issues, (except for possible faster evaporation).

I also do have a powerhead, but it is near the surface of the water, directed forward (if that makes sense).

It's air current right now creates a slight disturbance at the surface of the water.

I'm really particular about coral. If I don't like how it looks I don't want them. Yet I do want some, and the few that I am willing to buy right now, stated that it was easy to care for.

My only concern was that the coral would be at the bottom of my tank, and thus not really close to the rippling surface water.

I also read tonight that zoa's (though I don't mind them visually); produce some sort of toxin that can cause skin rashs, so I didn't want this one to be my first one.

As for the leathers, I think from what I've seen from samples, they are kinda ugly.

What do you have to offer?

I went to Manhattan aquariums today, but felt their prices for frags were a bit too much, and I didn't really like what they had on display today.

 

[evoIX_Reefer]

I wouldn't have him testing calcium, alk since he'll likely go with softies/zoas. From his initial post, his light isn't optimal so I would recommend him going with hardier corals. He's had a ton of issues. I would stick with water changes on a constant basis which will keep them happy.

oro, I don't know about anyone else but let me know if you come to jersey and I'll have a few things you can have for free to start your journey. Test how well they do before moving on.

Try things like nice colored cloves, zoas, etc.

Can you tell us exactly what fixture you have? Pictures?

 

[BioMan]

From what I know,, 20L = 5 gallons. This hobby isnt cheap so I would plan out exactly what I want before moving forward. keep in mind that 5 gallons of water WILL be hard to keep a consistant temperature, keep low levels of Nitrates and phosphates, macroalgae is essentially usless for you, IMO for a 5 gallon tank with clowns I'd get an anemone, few zoas and call it a day. Keep in mind I do know that there are people who are really talented and have made some incredible nano tanks so like mentioned to you earlier research.

 

[cmantis]

20L is a 20 gallon long.

 

[KathyC]

A few bits of advice and some questions..

Can you post a pic of the tank on here please?
Pitch the bubble wall - those are for fresh water tanks and cause nothing but saltcreep in a SW tank.
Do you have live rock in here..if so, how much? (pic would help with this answer)
Forget the pocillopora - you aren't ready for it yet lightwise.
Forget the Galaxea - yes they sting other corals and can reach pretty far

I also would rather see a RBTA in your tank BUT only after I know you OWN all of the proper test kits necessary to keep one, correct lighting and are practicing the proper husbandry to allow it to thrive.


------
Note: Please do not ask about buying or selling on your threads in discussion forums - that is not permitted on this site.
If you want to buy something - put up a thread in the Want to Buy Forum please.

 

[randysnyc]

Because it was my first and I've had great success with it thus far I would say go with a flower pot. They are easy to keep and are very hardy, don;t need much light and very rewarding.

 

[albano]

Because it was my first and I've had great success with it thus far I would say go with a flower pot. They are easy to keep and are very hardy, don;t need much light and very rewarding.

If by 'flower pot' you are referring to goniopora coral, (unless it is aquacultured) it is a poor choice for a coral in almost any tank...it will be very hard to maintain and will usually slowly recede and die in captivity

 

[BioMan]

20L is a 20 gallon long.

HAHA Sorry, I deal with the metric system a lot at work. 20 gallons is still likely to fluctuate especially since after adding sand and rock its not actually 20 gallons. This thread should be moved to the Nano tank section no?

 

[Jlavine]

Listen to people and get rid of the bubble wall. Get better lights made for a saltwater tank. Increase your flow as recommended 100x in other posts. Your questions make us laugh.

Other can check his previous posts for info on his tank and previous recs not followed.

 

[oro50]

Hello all,
Thank you for responding. I will post a picture of my tank when I can.
Yeah my tank now is slowly moving to the 1/2 year mark. DING congratulations for me. My red maroon seems to now like it's home for the most part.
I also did a change with my canister filter. I was using carbon, but I replaced the carbon inside this unit (fluval 106) with something called chemi-elite. It's supposed to last four to six months. I don't have the package it came in anymore or I would provide more detail.
It's suppose to be better than just using carbon.

Yes I realize with sand and rocks inside, there isn't 20 gallons in the tank, but it is a 20 gallon tank.

I have approximately 18lbs of live rock inside my tank. A fish store employee (someone who didn't want to eagerly sell me live-rock) eventually told me that I didn't need that much in the size tank I have, but I have it, so I'm using it. I've seen no real issues with using all of it for the last now 1/2 year almost.
The only thing I have noticed is that a-lot of the rocks turned different shades of green,
and I have some green and brown algae growing on some of the glass sides of this aquarium now.

 

[oro50]

Pictures

These are pictures taken today.

 

[oro50]

Other Picture

Other picture that I took today.

 

[oro50]

Jlavine, only you seem to be bothered by my posts. My questions refer to different things that either A. come up as time goes on in my tank, or B. Come up, because I want to do new things, such as this one right now, which is adding a piece of coral in my tank.
I ask questions here, because I don't trust the fish store employees entirely. According to some of them, they said my tank was completely ready for most corals as soon as it passed through the cycling period. I thought this was just them trying to make a buck, so I'm here to ask if my tank truly is ready to hold any coral life. If you are so bothered by my questions Jlavine, you no longer EVER have to read any of my posts. I'm glad this issue is now settled.

 

[fredro]

You should really get a light more suited for coral if you plan on getting some. As most things in this hobby, it gets addictive and you're going to want to get more. It's imperative to get the right equipment before the livestock. The bubble wall is pretty much useless to the tank, on top of an eyesore. Also, it will be more peaceful without the air pump running. Can the bubbler and replace it with a little powerhead for added circulation. I believe you said something about Cyano in the past. This will help with that if it's still there and help prevent it in the future, as it will likely return. I wouldve left the carbon as opposed to the chemi, but I'm sure you'll find people that agree with either side of that choice. I don't think Jlavine is trying to pick on you, but I do think that he's pointing out the fact that numerous suggestions that have been made to you have been ignored for whatever reason and these suggestions are usually basic and general known practices in the hobby. Soi think that hes just getting frustrated that you seem to be selective with most of then advice that you accept or follow. There are exceptions to every rule and ways to get around things, but for the most part, there are generally accepted practices. Wether it's that you can't afford to make the changes to your tank or if you don't want to accept someones recommendation, please realize that people are just telling you what will give you the best chances of success. It's not a contest to see if you can get by with the bare minimums or if you can keep something alive within a system that isn't made for it. It's about what you can do to have the best chance of keeping something alive and happy, without stressing it out. These are all live creatures and as many people will say, you could live in a closet with water and bread for years, but would you be happy? All advise that is given here is based on the advise of someone with a little more experience than you and their opinion on what will give the animal (fish, invert or coral) the best chance at living a happy and healthy life,

In a nutshell, for coral, whatever kind you want, a better light is HIGHLY recommended if not mandatory for most kinds, added flow will be VERY beneficial and although it's obviously driving most other members more nuts than you, the bubble wall is better off going in a box in the attic.

Please understand that I, like 99% of the others on here, am trying to help you, not criticize you.

 

[KathyC]

Excellent post Fredro!

Oro..thanks for the reply and the pics. Either the carbon or Chemi-pure Elite is fine in the canister filter.
Can I bother you for more pics..maybe no so close up.'Can we get a pic f the lighting set up and also a pic of how much agitation you have on the surface of the water - with the bubble want shut off please? (from the top down maybe)
Thanks!

 

[oro50]

Yeah ok I will do that later about more pictures.

To answer your question about why I have a bubble wall in the first place well this is how I'm going to respond to all of this.

First off, unlike how do I put it, a work place, this is a hobby. This means that a-lot of people involved in this hobby do things somewhat differently. I believe I always stated that I was somewhat new to this hobby, and though people here have told me things that are good to do, other people (fish store employees) that were and are still aware that I have a saltwater environment would tell me something I should do, and because a bubble wall did this particular job (which in this case was to create more agitation at the surface of the water in order to bring oxygen into my tank), I thought a bubble wall on the other side of my tank would serve as a good instrument.
Now it's true that a fish store employee is trying to make a buck, but since they were aware that my tank was a saltwater environment, if an additional powerhead would serve as a better surface agitator, they should have told me, since they get paid to offer advice to fish caretakers.
They did not, so I assumed that a bubble wall would work.

With that said too, yes I probably have a smaller budget than some of you guys right now to do this, but that doesn't mean I don't want this fish (as long as I keep it) to suffer.
To me I don't feel it's suffering, but if an additional powerhead would work better than a bubble wall for a saltwater tank I might replace the bubble wall in time, when I can. I can refers to when I can afford to.
With that said, from what I read the problem with a bubble wall (even though this device does create a-lot of surface agitation near the part of my aquarium where it's been placed); using this device in a saltwater tank, creates salt creep right?

Meaning that trace elements from the sea salt being used are escaping from my tank at a faster rate than they should be?

I didn't think that was a big issue though because, my salinity was a bit high to start, and the water changes I've been doing have been controlled. Meaning that the salinity level of additional water has been around 1.021.

I thought with my past high salinity and these water changes with the lower dose of salinity, that eventually my general salinity level would lower out so to speak, gradually in time.

As for frequency of water changes. I did my last one just this last saturday. Before this date, I hadn't changed any of my water for two weeks. I also removed about 30% of the water with this last change. The last two changes before this one, I removed less water, but I did a water change each week instead of bi-weekly. I've been going back and forth between one or two weeks, as a regular rule of thumb.

Lastly,
As for a new powerhead in the area where my bubble wall is presently situated in my aquarium, My only concern with a new powerhead is that in order to create additional flow at the trouble spot where my cyano was, I would have to insert the insulated wire that connects to the powerhead, somewhat deep into my aquarium, somehow I feel this is not a wise move?

In order for my present powerhead to work, I have to dip the insulated wire a little bit already into my aquarium, which concerns me somewhat already, but if I don't do that, my present powerhead won't function in my aquarium.

Now if you really mean that an additional powerhead that I might buy, should be used to create just more surface agitation in the area of my aquarium where my bubble wall is presently at, I'll try it. I am open to many solutions that would create agitation, but of course this means that this new powerhead will be situated near a spot that will not create any additional flow near the trouble spot in my aquarium where my original cyano was.

Again, the cyano in my tank is presently gone. I used chemi-clean, (the recommended dosage based on the gallons in my tank, and under their specific instructions took out my carbon and waited 48 hours.

There was still some cyano left, even after using this chemical cleaner, but I manually removed the leftovers from my tank.

As far as my fish goes right now. I've noticed that it has been resting more near it's little main spot, but it doesn't seem bothered. When I think it notices me or food, I see it move around with just as much life as it has been showing for two months since it's declared this tank as it's home.

As I write this right now it's resting in it's little spot. Yet it stays up to about 3 or 4am sometimes, so I figure that it's only about 11am now, that it's still just tired.

 

[oro50]

Oh and yeah there is one last comment I should state here.

As for my knowledge in saltwater environments, taking care of fish etc. Yes most of it has been trial and error or learning as I go for just the last half year. I am perfectly aware that some people on this forum have a-lot more experience than I do, but like a-lot of things in life, a-lot of people do things differently even when tackling either the same or similar problem that arises in their saltwater environments. When you have so many saying different things, it creates a situation for someone somewhat new to this hobby, to become somewhat if not very unsure how to proceed.
It's not that I'm not aware that Jlavine isn't trying to offer me advice, but it's in this guy's tone that bothers me, or to put it another way. What bothers me, is a intolerance in this guy's tone on how I might be doing something, (when he must be perfectly aware) that many people are suggesting to me different methods on how to tackle some new or old issue in my tank.
Yet in a way I'm not really surprised, as I find this intolerant nature within a-lot of industries I've worked in before and even ones I worked in now, which is to put it succinctly, there no longer is a tolerance in American culture for people to learn on the job so to speak. Employers seem to expect someone new to a industry to know everything right away. I think this is unrealistic.
Now this is not a job, but somehow I feel people expect someone new to this hobby, to take whatever they say as golden here, when they are perfectly aware that other people might be telling me other things at the same time, which put's their suggestions in my mind somewhat in question.
Again maybe this is an attitude that springs from again what I would call a recent American cultural habit which is intolerance to anyone with a different opinion. For instance like our present PC culture that not only wants to dictate how we speak to each other, but how we are supposed to think. It's not the America I was born in, I will say that, nor do I think it's healthy, since it means that other people can't have original thoughts as such thoughts would go against the present dogma, and that is what mainly pisses me off, is that if someone attacks a problem that arises in these saltwater aquarium worlds, in a different way than how most people do it, there is no tolerance for it, when these same people realize that not everyone in this hobby attacks simliar problems that arise in the same way.

 

[Chefjpaul]

Wow......just wow,

I believe the "tones" you are experiencing are out of the lack of acknowledgment from ADVICE you are given.....for free.

I have read all your posts and gave up as you seem to want to re-invent the reefing wheel, so to speak.

These guys / gals are here to help you, me, and each other. You will not find that in any "industry" for free.

I have only been in the reef side of hobby for a few years and am willing to have an open mind, as I suggest you try as well.

These people on here have successful, quality tanks, yes they all may do certain methods differently than one another, but end results are the same, when you stick with the basic fundamentals of reef tank keeping.

I suggest as you get advice utilize an interesting technology.....google.
Maybe ask what / where people are getting their information, such as websites, books, etc...
Use this to back up and come to a conclusion based on to make a logical decision.

I guarantee you this, everyone here has been through the learning curve, just able to listen and willing to learn.
The successful tanks here have been around a long long time for a reason.

Start with more research please.
Flow, lighting, water chemistry, etc...
BEFORE you proceed.

Start here;
http://www.reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/articles/articles-by-topic

I've read all these articles a few times, just to get an understanding of how everything in this hobby / ocean nature coincides together.

So....just asking to open up, don't take so much offense when people get frustrated with your methods, methods that have been tried. There is a reason they do or don't work. Many don't explain the why's, thats on you to research.


BTW - I suggest moving that powerhead in the side of the tank in middle until you get another one....which you will end up doing if you want to keep animals alive.

Have a great day!