Possible to use sea water and rocks straight from the ocean?

[wade1]

Buying second hand is generally no problem at all. It should be perfectly funtional... FYI we have forums for trading and selling items on here as well. Give those a look.

While at it, check out http://www.reefs.org/society/

There are lists of local socities and local people might have a better grasp on where to get things, how to collect, etc etc.

Good luck with it and be sure to let us know how it is progressing!

Wade

 

[SnowManSnow]

WOW where do you guys find the time haha! ?

Good job guys!

 

[Tackett]

LOL snow buddy, you know I have no life at all.

 

[mark78]

Whisper Filter - The 'inserts' in the whipser filter are the filter packs, with carbon in them probably? Not 100% sure on that model. If thats the case (likley to be white or blue fabric filled with carbon) then you want to replace them monthly...

Rocks - Any rock will act as a filter, some just do it a lot better then others. The more porus the rock, the better it will be, the lighter the rock, the better. ie a 20" rock that is very light will likley be better then a 20" rock that weighs a lot. This is just a general rule, not 100% of the time, there could be other things at play, or some types of rock to avoid.
White rocks are typically some form or limestone or calcium carbonate, which is ideal for a marine aquarium.

Flow - Flow IMO is one of the most important aspects of any aquarium. I'd invest in one or two powerheads around 200 gallons per hour (gph). These are pumps that get submerged in the water to circulate it.

Skimmer - a must for any marine tank IMO, except maybe a plant tank without corals. A prizm would work fine on a 29g I would think and are pretty cheap, an AquaC remora would be much better if you can afford the extra $100

Stability - A stable environment is probably even more important then water flow, flow just helps rid of dead spots and help keep the water parameteres stable throughout the tank.
Salinity, tempature, pH, you will hear different opinions as to what these levels should be kept at depending on who you talk to. As long as your in an acceptable range, and its STABLE (changes very little daily), you will do ok. Stability is KEY to any fish tank, even freshwater (the fish just tend to be more forgiving). Inline with this, is top off water, in a small tank like 30 gallons, its pretty important that you top off the tank with freshwater daily due to evaporation. If you let the tank evaportate a lot of water, the salinity will raise and will stress your livestock. Salt is left behind, it does not evaporate with the water.

It doesn't sound like you have a lot of fish keeping experience? Please take this as friendly advice not critisism, but I would HIGHLY recommend you get some water under your belt with easier fish keeping before you dive into something like a reef. Keep some freshwater fish for awhile as you learn, or if you really want to go marine, I'd keep it simple. A few small damsels or clowns, stick with hardy fish, and stay away from corals until you get upto speed. The reason I mention this is that the mistakes learned in freshwater are MUCH cheaper then salt water, and the mistakes learned in a hardy fish only marine tank are MUCH cheaper then the mistakes learned in a reef tank.

Welcome to the hobby? and the forum

It doesn't sound like you have a lot of fish keeping experience?

 

[Tackett]

Whisper Filter - The 'inserts' in the whipser filter are the filter packs, with carbon in them probably? Not 100% sure on that model. If thats the case (likley to be white or blue fabric filled with carbon) then you want to replace them monthly...

Monthly is a good rule of thumb, but I would change them every few weeks or so, carbon gets clogged very easily, especially the carbon that is found in the filter pads.

Rocks - Any rock will act as a filter, some just do it a lot better then others. The more porus the rock, the better it will be, the lighter the rock, the better. ie a 20" rock that is very light will likley be better then a 20" rock that weighs a lot. This is just a general rule, not 100% of the time, there could be other things at play, or some types of rock to avoid.
White rocks are typically some form or limestone or calcium carbonate, which is ideal for a marine aquarium.

This is simply not true, live rock is the best way to filter due to the animals breaking down the detrius that accumulates. Most other porus rock will be clogged in time. Though it is possible to grow nitrifying bacteria in any porous material, this is not the only goal. I would not screw with anyother rock but live. dried baserock like reefbones can be used but keep in mind that more baserock will take up space where you could have had more live.

Flow - Flow IMO is one of the most important aspects of any aquarium. I'd invest in one or two powerheads around 200 gallons per hour (gph). These are pumps that get submerged in the water to circulate it.

I agree that flow a very important aspect, but 400gph IMO is not nearly enough for a 29 gallon.

Skimmer - a must for any marine tank IMO, except maybe a plant tank without corals. A prizm would work fine on a 29g I would think and are pretty cheap, an AquaC remora would be much better if you can afford the extra $100.

DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT buy a prizm. IMO they are a waste of money that could have gone to a much better skimmer, same goes with seaclones. Dont waste your money, save it on a big skimmer. This is not an area to budget in.

Stability - A stable environment is probably even more important then water flow, flow just helps rid of dead spots and help keep the water parameteres stable throughout the tank.
Salinity, tempature, pH, you will hear different opinions as to what these levels should be kept at depending on who you talk to. As long as your in an acceptable range, and its STABLE (changes very little daily), you will do ok. Stability is KEY to any fish tank, even freshwater (the fish just tend to be more forgiving). Inline with this, is top off water, in a small tank like 30 gallons, its pretty important that you top off the tank with freshwater daily due to evaporation. If you let the tank evaportate a lot of water, the salinity will raise and will stress your livestock. Salt is left behind, it does not evaporate with the water.

This is very good advice, Stablility is the key, which is why larger volumes of water are so much easier to care for. Things can go to hell, as long as they go there slowly, and give you enough time to bring it back from the brink. Stability and schedules will save your neck. Change water at the same time of day every week if possible, with the same water, the same salt, and the same amount. Animals adapt much better if things are done on a cycle like the rest of the world.

I would HIGHLY recommend you get some water under your belt with easier fish keeping before you dive into something like a reef. Keep some freshwater fish for awhile as you learn, or if you really want to go marine, I'd keep it simple. A few small damsels or clowns, stick with hardy fish, and stay away from corals until you get upto speed.

This is something else I disagree with, freshwater tanks, and reefs are way different animals. Just because you are successful and understand the concepts of freshwater does not mean that you will be a more successful marine aquarist. In my years I have had ONE freshwater fish. It was a african cichlid that I could not even tell you the species. I agree with keeping it simple and working up though, but you dont have to start with freshwater, and as long as you have the basic equipment and follow the advice given, some easy corals should be more than feasable. After all, you cant get any experience unless you do it. comparing Corals and Tetras would be like comparing swimming in a pool of water, or a swimming pool of jello. Two different things

 

[mark78]

This is simply not true, live rock is the best way to filter due to the animals breaking down the detrius that accumulates.

Hmm I never thought of that aspect. Good point. I'd always recommend going live rock if its an option, but others will work with some exceptions. Many an aquarium/reef has been built on non-reef rock.

DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT buy a prizm. IMO they are a waste of money that could have gone to a much better skimmer, same goes with seaclones. Dont waste your money, save it on a big skimmer. This is not an area to budget in

Yah I do agree with that, but prizms are cheap, and I have seen them work ok on tanks less then 30 gallons. If you can afford a larger one, or plan to get a bigger tank then a prizm may be a waste of money yes, stay away from seaclone for sure though What are some other budget skimmers? Remora is the only one I have used and is an about twice the price of a prizm.

but 400gph IMO is not nearly enough for a 29 gallon.

13x hour, not bad...I don't think shes going to be keeping sps :p

This is something else I disagree with, freshwater tanks, and reefs are way different animals.

You did notice I mentioned or a hardy sw tank with some damsels maybe a clown or other hardy fish...
I didn't mean to learn the intracte details, but get used to things like water changes, testing, basic concepts etc... I would never recommend someone who has never kept an aquarium before to jump into inverts or corals right away.

again just my .02

 

[wade1]

A couple of salient points...

Live rock is a big lumpy name that means very little. In the best sense of the word it just indicates that the rock has life on it (especially microbial) that allows for the breakdown of nitrogenous and organic wastes. Most specifically nitrogenous waste. Adding half live and half dry rock is not a problem at all. The life (and especially microbes) will spread to those surfaces very quickly. Macro life (pods, etc) take a bit longer, but will still spread into that rock. The one caveat is that you MUST stock slowly so that the bacterial poopulations can grow with the increasing load.

Now... the type of rock matters in its composition and its porosity. The granite used to form the jetties is not good rock... it just takes up space with no density and might have silica, iron, manganese, etc in it that will leach out over time. It will be fine for kicking off the tank with life, but I would not leave much of it long-term.

Stability is _the_ key to reefkeeping.

I don't think its a problem to start with a reef tank as a first tank or a four hundredth. However, it takes more reading and research and validation of animals you want to add than most other systems. If you establish the tank properly early on, then you will not have any problems down the road with proper maintenance.

Wade

 

[Anonymous]

IMO YES.

 

[saltnmyeye]

great thread guys! RDO Rocks!

 

[Tackett]

yeah live rock is a big blanket term, I was referring to it as your stereotypical rock. Saying that any rock will do as a filter is just not true no matter how porous it is. Though it can be made to grow the appropriate bacteria if used in the right way, but if the microbial life isnt present to start with, or the setup isnt constructive to growth of specific bactera, then the rock will NOT do any good, and will just clog. The flow remark was made because I had about that same flow in my old 29, and we all saw pics of that nasty thing. As to the remark about the prism. I stand by it. Doing your budgeting with a cheaper skimmer is simply a unwise thing to do. And I agree with wade, a reef tank as a first tank is perfectly acceptabe as long as you are do your homework as denysedar is doing. There are many inverts that are tougher than most people would think, again it requires homework to figure out which to get as a first critter, and which ones to avoid untill later. But I was not attempting to discredit or troll Mark's post, so do not take offense. I simply was responding to statements made that I did or did not agree with. But as said many times in this thread and many others, stability is the end all be all KEY to success.

 

[denysedar]

Ok I missed a lot! wooo. Sorry I had emergency surgery done so was out of commission for a little bit there. Was just able to get up around 2 days ago but here is where the tank stands (and yes I AM inexperienced but I took all the great advice!):
1. I bought 30lbs of crushed coral for the bed. I bought two large coquina rock (very common here in FL) that were decorative and bought one mid-size live rock with some little plants growing on it. (the thought being to let the one live rock populate the others and save myself a BUSLOAD of money.) I've kept the few small peices of jetty rock but only for the time being because I think they make stuff that the snails eat.
2. For the moment I bought a light - a flourescent with the highest wattage and whitest light I could get in a 30". I spent about $70 for that knowing that it was a temporary "get through the first stages" purchase. I will do the halide thing later when I build a proper hood for the tank but the guy at the petstore said it could accomodate an anemonie.
3. Bought carbon filters
4. Bought the background paper
5. Bought a small clown fish and a chocolate chip starfish.

I'm about $200 poorer now and still have a ways to go just to have a proper "base" of a tank. LOL I didn't want to buy the fish but the kids were making me nuts so I broke down and bought the smallest little guy I could find and the tiniest starfish they had. Pray for them that the survive please!
So next on my list is a skimmer and a vaccum. It's amazing how slow going this is.
I've committed to changing filters, doing water change and vaccuming every 3 weeks but I'm wondering if it's ok to do all of it at once or is it too stressful for the fish/system to do all that at once?
Thanks again for the INCREDIBLE advice and links and everything. It's been a complete godsend.

 

[Tackett]

I would have went with sand for your bottom. crushed coral will have a tendency to trap detrius and create a nitrate factory, but you can solve this by vaccuming the gravel when you do water changes. But I would not vaccum deeper than the top layer, you will remove the critters that will eventually find there way in there.
Please take our advice and skimp not on the skimmer, ask before you buy it. I think I remember us saying something about a turboflotor hang on or a remora hang on, but I cant remember if that was this thread or not. You can do all the maintenence at one time, it wont hurt anything. Just remember, take it slow, and know what your getting before you get it. It will save you from buying things twice.

best of luck to ya, keep us posted. Pics would be nice