Supergiantrobot's 90 G tank setup

[Anonymous]

Yes chris you are absolutely correct.

But plant life also consumes amonnia, phosphates and carbon dioxide as well. And turns those products in to fish food. Plus filtering out heavy and toxins which can then be exported from the system.

To the best of my knowledge anaerobic bacteria does none of those things. And produces ammonia.

So live rock by that article may or may not have bacterial action consuming nitrAtes but definately and with any doubt does have lotsa and lotsa algae.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes chris you are absolutely correct.

But plant life also consumes amonnia, phosphates and carbon dioxide as well.

So do bacteria in the tank.

And turns those products in to fish food.

Which only matters if you have fish that eat the plants.

Plus filtering out heavy and toxins which can then be exported from the system.

Maybe. You have yet to show the uptake capacity or rate of any of the plants that we keep in our tanks. Until we can show such capacity for such plants relying on them to 'filter' out toxins and heavy metals is a dangerous bet.

To the best of my knowledge anaerobic bacteria does none of those things. And produces ammonia.

Aerobic and anaerobic do all of those things. I find it shocking that you either ignore this fact of don't know it.

So live rock by that article may or may not have bacterial action consuming nitrAtes but definately and with any doubt does have lotsa and lotsa algae.

Do you realize that that doesn't support your 'method'? If, IF, rock has lots and lots of algae on it regardless of what we do to it, then we don't need to be adding extra plants as you continually try to recommend.

Again Bob, I think it would be better if you had these discussions in the GRD and not the NRF. The information you are providing is suspect and confusing.

 

[HClH2OFish]

Plus filtering out heavy and toxins which can then be exported from the system.

Maybe. You have yet to show the uptake capacity or rate of any of the plants that we keep in our tanks. Until we can show such capacity for such plants relying on them to 'filter' out toxins and heavy metals is a dangerous bet.
[/quote]


This doesn't even take into account the fact that if you are using RO/DI, you aren't putting these heavy metals/toxins into the tank in the first place.

 

[supergiantrobot]

Some quick updates:

I received a dozen red mangroves today. I planted them in sand in my refugium. I will install a small reptile daylight bulb for the mangroves tomorrow. The mangroves came from coraldynamics.com.

I am having good luck with the X10 devices. My computer's power strips and and AC adapters definitely cause problems, though, and will need to be filtered out some more. But I hope to use X10 at least for lighting of the refugium and display.

I seem to be evaporating at least a gallon of water per day. I'd have to get a graduated container to know for sure, but I had to do yet another top-off today, at least as much as yesterday. (I checked for leaks!) Have very good surface movement with two Maxi-Jet 1200s at the corners on 24/7 (for the moment.) From what I can tell, this sort of evaporation is to be expected and will only increase when I add the MH and VHO lamps.

Oh, yeah, I got my Series One Freakables. Cool dudes. Maybe even cooler than fish!

 

[Anonymous]

excellent

I think you'll find algaes will be much less of a problem with the mangroves growing.

I have always wondered how they help the just before lights off ph as they do not consume co2 from the water column. so keep us posted.

And hope the x10 works as well.

Bob

 

[supergiantrobot]

Just a quick note...

Went to my local fish store today to check on my lights, and took a water sample. According to my tests and the store's test, the tank has cycled. So, I splurged and bought a handful of Margarita Snails and some red and blue leg hermits. For now, they are living in the 'fuge with the mangroves, because there isn't any light in the display tank.

I also got some "sump junk" from the bottom of the cured live rock tank to add some more culture to the tank.

I am pleased to see some kind of critters living, even if it's in the 'fuge.

Salinity is up between 1.024 and 1.025 per the suggestions here.

I also put in a small 25W daylight reptile bulb above the fuge for the mangroves.

My protein skimmer looked like Godzilla sh*tted in it, so I cleaned that out today, too.

I got two X10 filters today and will install them tomorrow. Just a simple computer AC adapter really can mess with things. So, I am hoping the filters can allow me to run the tank from the Mac!

More later.

 

[supergiantrobot]

Now that my tank has cycled, I have some additional questions about next steps.

Just to review, the tank system now has twelve red mangroves, (a combined total of) twelve red- and blue-legged hermit crabs, and nine or so Margarita snails, all living in the 'fuge. There is nothing in the display, because my lights have not yet arrived. For the 'fuge, I now run a 25 W daylight terrarium bulb 24/7 for the mangroves and a 65 W LoA fluorescent flood light 14 hours a day for the snails and crabs.

Without further ado, here are my questions:

1/ I will leave the flood light on the 14 hours to promote algae growth for the snails and hermits. The snails have already cleaned out whatever algae there was. However, do I need to supplement to make sure the bottom dwellers have something to eat? If so, what is the supplement? I have seen mention of dried seaweed (nori?), and I have spirulina tablets. What care do they need?

2/ My LFS sells RO/DI. I noticed a sign there that says "you must buffer the water." I add my RO/DI as top-off without any treatment. So, what is "buffer" and do I need it? (As of next week, I hope to be running an automated kalkwasser reactor for automated top-off.)

3/ Does anyone have a source for Scarlet hermit crabs?

4/ What should I consider for my first livestock purchase (beyond crabs and snails)? I had my eye on a "cleaning crew" package. What about a first coral (once the display lights are installed...)

5/ Related to (4), will anything clean off the die-off that remains on my live rock?

Your indulgence is appreciated.

Martin

 

[Anonymous]

In my opinion you should not have to add buffer because of the ro/di water. But then ro/di does remove calcium and buffering agents along with the badies.

I feel the plant life will help maintain just before lights out ph. But you may have to buffer calcium if you do not have another effective calcium source. But you would probably have to do that with tap anyway.

Hopefully the plant life you added will reduce or eliminate the need for a cleaner crew.

Just my .02

 

[HClH2OFish]

I'd hold off a bit on getting a full 'cleaner crew' if what you're meaning is one of those online crab/snail/etc. combos... There probably isn't enough food to go around in the tank for all these critters right now.

In my tanks I don't bother feeding my crabs on a regular basis...they eat the detritus that the fish don't get to. Maybe once or twice a week I'll toss in 1/4 cube of frozen squid for em as a snack, but not really as a separate 'feeding'

I'd hold off on the corals for a bit...even though the tank water has cycled, the tank should mature for a little bit = that way you don't have to worry about ups and downs w/Ca, buffers, etc.

Before you start adding 'buffers' and other additives, realize that right now there isn't much in the tank that is taking up anything right now, other than any coralline on the rock, which won't immediately take off..esp. if you have no lights on it right now.
The main thing to remember at the start is try and keep things as simple as possible...you want a tank that will keep itself fairly stable with as little additives as possible. After all, you want a reef tank, not a chemistry lab
BTW, the 'buffer' they are talking about is to keep the Ph stable around the 8.2 range..it varies according to time of day you take your readings, so always test your Ph at the same time every day (I test mine around 5:30 right before feeding time and about 2-3 hrs. before lights out and it's always a rock solid 8.2) Just keep measuring your Ph to see if any buffer is needed...usually any kind of coralline sand or crushed aragonite will be enough to keep the Ph stable as this breaks down over time IIRC.
What kinds of fish are you thinking about? Now is definitely the time to start making a list of what you want...that way you can tailor the tank for those species needs and your first additions will affect what other additions you may want to make further on down the line.

Once you get your lights, if you have some slower water flow areas in shady spots, you may want to get some mushrooms. They add a nice splash of color, but many don't like them due to their tendency to proliferate in the tank after a few months.

As for the die off, your hermits/snails may do a job on that depending on how far gone it is...I was really surprised what my guys cleaned off the rock.

From your tank sketch and what things look like so far, it seems your tank is off to a great start! Just keep reading reading reading! And posting questions..

And as usual, just my .02....someone please correct me if I'm mistaken on anything..I've yet to have the fun of a 90gal reef

 

[supergiantrobot]

I will definitely go slowly. I agree that until the lights in the display are running, there won't be food for the crew. That was my reason for putting the crew critters I got last week in the 'fuge. And as I said, the snails have been quite busy and efficient.

I just started reading about fish and corals. One of my first additions will probably be one or more yellow gobies. They have personality, color, and work the bottom.

I will probably get mushrooms. I also would like to get some macroalgaes. I also like the blue coral, although I need to read more about keeping it.

And, thanks for the heads-up on buffers. I probably won't add any fish until the kalk reactor has been running for some time and I get a sense of what the pH, calcium, and alkalinity look like over time. I am going to try the Salifert tests for some of these metrics.

 

[supergiantrobot]

Day Seventeen:

pH: 7.8
Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrites: 0.0
Nitrates: 2.5

I need to get some other diagnostic tests to measure calcium, alkalinity, etc. Rumor has it that my lights have arrived at my LFS, and Tim at Ecotech has finished my kalk reactor. I am anxious to get some stuff growing in the display.

 

[Anonymous]

Just a thought. Brighter lights should result in higher just before lights out ph and lower nitrates.

I presume the nitrAtes at 2.5ppm are nitrate-nitrogen. That would be about 10-11 ppm total nitrogen.

I still would recommend macros in a refugium. Your bioload will probably get larger and the macros will really really help.

 

[Anonymous]

I still would recommend macros in a refugium. Your bioload will probably get larger and the macros will really really help.

See how at the end you switch from an opinion to a statement of fact?

The statement is too simplistic. How much macro is needed to make a difference? What kind? How much and what kind of lighting do they need? How do you know it will help?
You also ignore then numerous reefers who have increased bio load and see little to no growth in their macros.


I am also unsure why you are so involved in the idea of pH being kept stable by plants. A swing in pH is normal.

 

[Anonymous]

I still would recommend macros in a refugium. Your bioload will probably get larger and the macros will really really help.

See how at the end you switch from an opinion to a statement of fact?

The statement is too simplistic. How much macro is needed to make a difference? What kind? How much and what kind of lighting do they need? How do you know it will help?
You also ignore then numerous reefers who have increased bio load and see little to no growth in their macros.


I am also unsure why you are so involved in the idea of pH being kept stable by plants. A swing in pH is normal.

supergiantrobot:

I certainly hope these types of comments do not stop you from enjoying your system. I know you have understood what I posted. I just hope these types of comments are not confusing you.

Bob

 

[HClH2OFish]

Umm...Bob, that last post does nothing to answer anything in the previous questions and can continue to mislead someone that your method is the only one that will work. Again, it is *not* an accepted reef keeping practice to rely on macros and pushing it to newbies with no real evidence to back it up except your experiences doesn't help anyone new to the hobby, and can lead to quite a bit of confusion as your method isn't covered much anywhere. Until there is more data on other tanks besides yours, IMHO it's best kept in the GRF instead.
Instead of pushing that "This is the way to do it" it would be better if your posts read more as "This is the way *I* do it" and your experiences.

And not as a flame, but just curious, have you even run a skimmer on a reef tank as a control along w/a macro filtration tank to determine any differences?

 

[Anonymous]

Umm...Bob, that last post does nothing to answer anything in the previous questions and can continue to mislead someone that your method is the only one that will work. Again, it is *not* an accepted reef keeping practice to rely on macros and pushing it to newbies with no real evidence to back it up except your experiences doesn't help anyone new to the hobby, and can lead to quite a bit of confusion as your method isn't covered much anywhere. Until there is more data on other tanks besides yours, IMHO it's best kept in the GRF instead.
Instead of pushing that "This is the way to do it" it would be better if your posts read more as "This is the way *I* do it" and your experiences.

And not as a flame, but just curious, have you even run a skimmer on a reef tank as a control along w/a macro filtration tank to determine any differences?

Just for the record: "my" methods is not the only successful way of running a reef tank. And I am not pushing "it" as the only way.

I am simply sharing my experiences of what I have found to be successful.

The newbie deserves to be exposed to successful techniques.

If you disagree then talk to me in pm's or GRF. that way we may actually come to some understanding as to why both work, what are the strengths and weaknesses are of either. And not confuse the newbie.

 

[Anonymous]

All of the reading I have found on mangroves seems to say that they aren't a great choice for up-taking nutrients - their growth is simply too slow, and they can release a lot of organics into the system. If anyone has any links to the contrary, I would love to read them.

 

[Anonymous]

Just for the record: "my" methods is not the only successful way of running a reef tank. And I am not pushing "it" as the only way.

You may not be intending to do so, but your posts are telling a different story.

I am simply sharing my experiences of what I have found to be successful.

The newbie deserves to be exposed to successful techniques.

And you have yet to show us any evidence that your techniques are successful.

If you disagree then talk to me in pm's or GRF. that way we may actually come to some understanding as to why both work, what are the strengths and weaknesses are of either. And not confuse the newbie.

Lets be accurate here. Your posts are considered confusing to new reefers by the RDO staff. That is the source of the confusion, not subsequent posts trying to clear up what you wrote.

 

[Anonymous]

I still would recommend macros in a refugium. Your bioload will probably get larger and the macros will really really help.

See how at the end you switch from an opinion to a statement of fact?

The statement is too simplistic. How much macro is needed to make a difference? What kind? How much and what kind of lighting do they need? How do you know it will help?
You also ignore then numerous reefers who have increased bio load and see little to no growth in their macros.


I am also unsure why you are so involved in the idea of pH being kept stable by plants. A swing in pH is normal.

supergiantrobot:

I certainly hope these types of comments do not stop you from enjoying your system. I know you have understood what I posted. I just hope these types of comments are not confusing you.

Bob

Bob, I don't how they would stop SGR from enjoying his system - one that isn't set up like yours BTW.

 

[supergiantrobot]

I certainly hope these types of comments do not stop you from enjoying your system. I know you have understood what I posted. I just hope these types of comments are not confusing you.
Bob

As a beginner, I'd prefer to see best practices and concrete answers. I have to disregard debates like this, since it is difficult to extract reliable information. I am not eschewing opinions, just saying that a choice between many viable, legitimate options is what I need.