Noob on a mission, 75 Gallon Reef *Updated* Pics...

[Anonymous]

So as a beginner, noob is more like it, I have been on the search for all of the info needed to setup my first saltwater reef tank. I've visited my local aquarium store, I've been reading up in the FAQ and beginners guides in the New RKF, and also reading the book 'The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Robert M. Fenner.
It seems that there are a plethora of equipment choices in each of the categories of filters, pumps and lighting, and even more opinions on which is the best to use.
So what I'm going to list is my goal with tank size and shape, conditions of its location, and what I'd like to have in the tank in the long run so that I can get some more specific info on what I should be purchasing. I would hate to see my fishes perish because of lack of info and preparation on my part. My fiance and I have no problem being patient, and taking the time to set up the proper environment before introducing our desired specimens. We certainly want a beautiful aquascape, but health of our fish would be our number one concern. So without further adu, here is our goal and setup condiitons:

The tank:
We (prefer) and are looking at a 75ish gallon tank, Glass with a bow front (unless I get a good deal on the standard flat). Tank is about 48" in length and has pre drilled holes for under tank filtration/sump setup to be placed in the stand.
Location:
Our apartment is normally about 72degrees and the tank location is against a wall next to the corner. Not an outside wall, not next to or under a window. Its an avergae lit room, with little humidity.
Tank Inhabitants:
Live Rock, Live Sane and Coral, anemone
Fish we are interested in:
Puffer Fish (porcupine)
Clown Trigger (My book says they should work with puffers) but that they are
very aggressive. Maybe one to stay away from?
Tangs (Whitefaced, Red Sea Sailfin, Hippo, Yellow, Powder Blue)
Clown Fish (Tomato, Percula)
Queen Angelfish OR King Angelfish
French Angelfish OR Grey Angel fish(will these 2 Angels mix ? One Holacanthus, and one Pomacanthus)
Bannerfish

I havent yet looked into the specific environment requirements of each of the fish (gravity, temp, etc) nor have I researched their compatibility. I'm assuming that we wont be able to house all of the species, but I'm sure theres a combination of them that would work depending on the rock/coral setup, and introduction order/number into the tank.

So what is the first step in deciding which gear I will need? Im guessing we need to filter out which fish will work together and with which coral/habitat setup first, and then the equipment can be suited to match that in the 75 gallon tank?

Any help is greatly appreciated, and many thanks in advance! [/u]

 

[cindre2000]

The first step is, as you said, to determine what you want to keep. However, since you know the tank size you can probably go on to the next step:

Determining the filtration, lighting, and flow/plumbing.

But before we go into that, some comments on your fish list. Most of those get quite large (far to big for a 75g) and will eat coral.

If you like coral you cannot have a puffer (oh, and they are mean too). You could keep a small reef safe trigger as long as you start small. Possibly a bluethroat or white tail; however, they get fairly large and really need a larger tank.

The only tangs you should even consider are a yellow, scopas, or Ctenochaetus sp. (kole, tomini, bristletooth, chevron, etc). One would be about the max.

All of those angel fish get far to big for anything but a several hundred gallon aquarium. You would be best off with a nice small dwarf angelfish such as a flame, coral beauty, potters, flameback, etc.

You will also be pressed to fit in a bannerfish as well.

Max size is very important. You should look at fish that get no bigger than 8". And pretty much all but 1 or 2 should not exceed 6" when full grown. You also have to consider aggression and diet. A lot of the fish you listed eat coral.

 

[cindre2000]

Filtration:

Most people have great success with a good protein skimmer combined with good flow and live rock. The skimmer removes the waste and the good flow will prevent dead spots where waste can build up. The live rock will take care of the rest.

It is best to use an in sump skimmer since they work the best. Octopus, Tunze, Euroreef, H&S, and ASM are all decent skimmers of similar design. These particular designs are easy to run and maintain. However, these skimmers are not equal and you often cannot trust manufacturer recommendations (especially on cheap skimmers).

Lighting:

Go with the best from the beginning. You can keep most corals with two 250w metal halide and some VHO, PC, or T5HO actinic supplimentation. Or you could go with just T5HO (4-6 bulbs). I like metal halide for wider tanks since they are relatively efficient.

Flow/Plumbing:

Flow is an important key to successful reef keeping. I like propeller model powerheads (Tunze Stream, Hydor Koralia, Vortech, Maxi-Jet Mod) with a decent return pump (w/ eductors). You should not rely entirely on your return pump for flow; and standard powerheads (impeller style) are not efficient at moving the large amount of water you need moved in larger aquariums.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the responses cindre. So is there a general rule to go by for max fish size for different size tanks or is this solely based on the fishes characteristics?

Good News, I found a tank yesterday, agreed to a sale with the owner, and will be picking it up later in the week. It is a 75 gallon Acryllic tank in excellent condition. I'll get exact measurements when I pick it up, but the tank is a 4 footer. It doesn't have holes drilled in the bottom for filtration, it has the shield against the back section which houses the filtering gear. Should I consider drilling holes for under tank filtration or keep the setup as is? I'm assuming I'll be needing a nice large sump under there...

For the lighting I was considering a combo Halide and actinic setup. What preconfigured solutions do you recommend? (A pre housed unit that I can attatch to the large wooden hood on top of the tank.)

Also, for filtration, is there a good combo setup that includes the sump, filtration/protein skimmer that you can recommend?

 

[mr_X]

buy a 2 x 250 watt halide retro kit and use T-5 or VHO for actinic suppliment. this one looks pretty good:
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~ ... P4224.html
if you have a wooden canopy, you don't need a pre-housed unit. the retro kits come attached to a reflector. all you need to do is screw the reflector to the top of the canopy. if you want an all-in-one unit, hamilton makes some nice fixtures.
most complete fixtures aren't meant to be bolted to the inside of a canopy. they come with mounting legs, which will quickly become a pain in the butt, if you are like me and have your hands in the tank multiple times per day, or hanging hardware for attaching to the ceiling. i guess you could use the hanging cables and attach to the inside of the canopy, but i think that would be a waste of effort.


what do you mean by "it has the shield against the back section which houses the filtering gear"?
are there holes drilled in the back of the tank then? if so, i'd leave it as-is.

i suggest you stay away from the combo sump/skimmers. the skimmers are small and cheezy, and the sumps are generally not user-friendly. it's easier to purchase a 20, 30, or 40 breeder tank(as big as you can fit under the stand), glue in a couple baffles, and throw the skimmer of your choice in there. you'll be much happier you did it that way down the road.

 

[Anonymous]

what do you mean by "it has the shield against the back section which houses the filtering gear"?
are there holes drilled in the back of the tank then? if so, i'd leave it as-is.

I should have snapped some photo's
It basically looks like a plastic divider that attaches to each corner of the inside back of the aquarium and bows out to allow filtration equipment to sit behind it. Check out the link below and just think wider. Wish I knew what it was called...I'll get some pics of the entire tank for all of your reviews and suggestions when I pick it up this week.
http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/friendemail.php/13619

i suggest you stay away from the combo sump/skimmers. the skimmers are small and cheezy, and the sumps are generally not user-friendly. it's easier to purchase a 20, 30, or 40 breeder tank(as big as you can fit under the stand), glue in a couple baffles, and throw the skimmer of your choice in there. you'll be much happier you did it that way down the road.

I'm a pretty handy guy, as long as I have some instruction. I dont mind taking your suggested route,especially if it will work better than what I'm able to purchase, but is there a tutorial for this on the site you can point me to?

 

[mr_X]

that picture you supplied is a photo of an internal overflow. where are the holed drilled? they are usually at the bottom of the tank, behind that black cover. that is a good design.

before a tutorial, you need to decide what exactly, your sump will do. will it just be a place for your skimmer and heaters? if so, then all you need is a series of baffles before the return pump to stop any microbubbles from entering the display. will you keep a refugium in your sump as well? (a refugium is a place, free of predation, that holds macroalgae which helps with biological filtration/nutrient export and perhaps some sand and live rock, to grow copepods/amphipods) this seems to be a popular component in reef tanks lately. if you click on my build link below, you'll see that i have this implemented as well. i use it for filtration and a little frag tank. i don't have a need for extra pod breeding..there's plenty of that in the main tank.

 

[Anonymous]

Dont remember where holes are drilled, if any. I'll have to follow up with that info when its picked up. Either way, for an acrylic 75 gallon in this shape with a quality stand and hood, I couldn't beat it for $150

As I said, I'll post some good quality pics for you guys in this thread as soon as its picked up so that you can see what we are working with.

As far as the sump goes, what size is appropriate for a 75 gallon tank? (Thanks for pointing out the link to your build by the way, fantastic reef you have there sir! ) I'm assuming from the benefits listed that a refugium would be beneficial and recommended? I'd like to place the heaters and protein skimmer in the sump tank as well, anything that can be contained is a plus. From what I understand, I should have a couple heaters, possible one in the sump, and one in the tank. And also a power head in addition to the normal return. Sorry if my terminology is off as I'm learning as I go, and read. :wink:

On a side note, I see your actually close to my area. I live in Mt Airy (philadelphia) right outside of Roxborough. The only quality aquarium store I've been to is "The Hidden Reef" which is in Levittown, PA.
Any other good places I should know about?

 

[mr_X]

the sump size is debatable. i think the best answer is- the largest you can comfortably fit under your stand. remember, you'll need to put your skimmer/heaters..filter socks..refugium..and whatever else you think of in there. just be sure to pick up a "breeder" style tank. those are best for sumps, due to the large surface area. you'll see what i mean when you see one in person.

thanks for the compliment about my fish bowl!

the hidden reef is the best in the area for dry goods, fish, and some corals. they don't use great light over their tanks so their acros brown out a bit, and some of their LPS retract, but their prices are good.
there is a place near me called the frazer zoo. they are good for small frags- pretty reasonable.
also, down off of the prospect park exit of 95, is east coast aquatics. they have some decent stuff sometimes.
around the corner from the hidden reef is "the fish factory". they are pretty high priced, but if you know what you are looking at, you might be able to catch a deal there occasionally.
have you been to "that fish place" yet, in lancaster?

 

[cindre2000]

Two heaters in the sump; this minimizes the impact if one breaks and stays on. A refugium is beneficial but the skimmer is more important. You should have at least 2 additional powerheads; preferably a propeller style (I like Tunze).

Like X said. Lots of surface area makes life easier when you have a sump. However, if you have a 18" tank, it is unlikely you have room in your stand for a 18" sump. Thus a 30g might be your best bet (unless you go custom built).

 

[mr_X]

yes..flow inside the display is important for corals. tunze is the best they say, but hard on the wallet! Hydor Koralias are considerably cheaper and do a reasonable job.
i also agree on the 2 heaters. i use 3 actually.

and lastly, yes, the skimmer is more important than the refugium. the skimmer is the most important thing you'll buy besides lighting. do not skimp on this. buy a good quality skimmer. they are not all alike.

 

[Anonymous]

the sump size is debatable. i think the best answer is- the largest you can comfortably fit under your stand. remember, you'll need to put your skimmer/heaters..filter socks..refugium..and whatever else you think of in there. just be sure to pick up a "breeder" style tank. those are best for sumps, due to the large surface area. you'll see what i mean when you see one in person.

thanks for the compliment about my fish bowl!

the hidden reef is the best in the area for dry goods, fish, and some corals. they don't use great light over their tanks so their acros brown out a bit, and some of their LPS retract, but their prices are good.
there is a place near me called the frazer zoo. they are good for small frags- pretty reasonable.
also, down off of the prospect park exit of 95, is east coast aquatics. they have some decent stuff sometimes.
around the corner from the hidden reef is "the fish factory". they are pretty high priced, but if you know what you are looking at, you might be able to catch a deal there occasionally.
have you been to "that fish place" yet, in lancaster?

Frazier zoo is off of RT 30, yes ?
Havent been to "that fish place yet", no. Worth a trip ? Taking a drive to The Hidden Reef is worth it just to take a look at all of the fish. (We were told they usually get fresh stock on Mondays, so thats the day to visit)


"Fish Bowl", LOL :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Two heaters in the sump; this minimizes the impact if one breaks and stays on. A refugium is beneficial but the skimmer is more important. You should have at least 2 additional powerheads; preferably a propeller style (I like Tunze).

Like X said. Lots of surface area makes life easier when you have a sump. However, if you have a 18" tank, it is unlikely you have room in your stand for a 18" sump. Thus a 30g might be your best bet (unless you go custom built).

Thanks. I'll get measurements of the stands understorgae space once picked up and see what we can fit in there.

 

[mr_X]

that fish place is much bigger than the hidden reef, however, they have a large portion of the store for dog/cat/bird/lizard/rodent stuff too.
it's worth the trip, but you live nearest to the best in my opinion(thr).
yes, frazer zoo is on rte 30 in frazer.

 

[Anonymous]

Would a Tunze Turbelle Nanostream 6045 handle in tank flow duties pretty well ?
Flow rate: 1189gph
Energy consumption: 7W
Voltage/Frequency: 115V/60Hz
Cable length: 78.7"
Dimensions: Diameter = 2.7"; Outlet Diameter = 1.5"/0.59"

That would be a more than 15x tank size per hour rate of flow.

I could also do (2) Hydor Koralia 3's

If two are needed, I see a pair of Tunze 6060's for a good price, but that may be a bit too agressive for a 75 gallon. Thoughts?

For Protein Skimmers, is the Seaclone100 any good?

 

[cindre2000]

You can't put in too much flow. If you have the money, get the two tunze. If you are a bit cheaper, get the tunze nano and get a second one later. This is one of the areas people skimp the most. I suggest tunze because they work, they last, and the customer service is great. A tunze will last you a good long time and you will be able to keep on using it as you upgrade tanks.

I have a 120 (4ft) set up right now and it have about 4000+ gph going through it right now; and it can still handle more flow.

You should think about getting at least 20-30x flow, minimum. A pair of 6600's are nice; however, you may not be able to run then both full throttle in a 75 (but if you upgrade you won't be selling these).

Seaclone? Yeah it works great! As a door stop.

 

[Anonymous]

You should think about getting at least 20-30x flow, minimum. A pair of 6600's are nice; however, you may not be able to run then both full throttle in a 75 (but if you upgrade you won't be selling these).

Seaclone? Yeah it works great! As a door stop.

Yeah, after doing some research on the Seaclone, I kind of got that impression as well. Any other suggestions for the protein skimmer model? Im all ears!

So about the 6600's, can they be dialed down or is it an on/off only flow rate? I'm assuming both could still be used if angled properly?

 

[cindre2000]

Now that I look more closely at that model. It cannot be dialed back; however, it only produces 1500ish g/h, which should be plenty low enough.

As for the skimmer, Octopus 150 recirculating is a good skimmer for the price. Other than that, look around for some good deals. You can usually find some good used skimmers for sale.

 

[Anonymous]

Is it reasonable to house both heaters in the sump or should one go in the tank? Also, I'm assuming putting the heater in the same chamber of the sump as the protein filter should work fine, but if not let me know.

 

[mr_X]

you could put one in sump and one in tank, if you can hide it easily. or both in sump so you don't see heaters in the display :wink:
protein skimmer and heater together is fine.