Water Movement

[reefs4life]

I just read that turnover rate should be 10-15 times the total water volume for Fish Only and 20-30 times with a reef tank. I have a 75 with a 30g sump which is a total of about 100 gals because I don't fill it to the top. That means I should have a total gph rathe of anywhere from 2000 to 3000 gph for my tank. With the two 3s that's already 1700gph plus the other returns which arent much but I'm guessing it brings me to about 2000gph. And if I add the 4 I'll be at 3200 gph which is more than enough. Thanks for all the suggestions and feedback Devious, I would have gotten the 4s if I read it right.

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Hahaha...that's funny.
Out of 6 replies...you go with the only 1 that adviced you to go with lower flow.

Oh well, good luck.

:lol2: Phil "adviced!!"

24 gallon aquapod 2 mj 1200's with hydor rotating deflectors and 1 hydor koralia nano.

I have more flow in my 24 !

 

[DevIouS]

He got the point:irked:

 

[DevIouS]

Reefer:

No prob on the advice.

Honestly....I would throw the turnover rate figures out the window.
Mostly all pumps exaggerate the GPH listed.
Return pumps, UV's, etc. are not really adding flow in the tank & is not designed for that purpose.

I go by the movement of the corals & enough flow that it's able to kick light crud off the sand / rocks.

 

[BZOFIQ]

minimum 2 4's or go for 4 #3s for better control.

 

[reefnut81564]

I had 3 Koralia #4s in my 75 and it didn't seem like enough. i had a few dead spots. I just bought 4 Tunze Nanostream 6055 with a Tunze controller and now i have great water movement.

 

[JLAudio]

I use a #4 and tunze 6045 in my 54 corner. Get stronger ones, so you could bounce water off glass making a good natural flow for corals

 

[Eznet2u]

Tank turn over rates are not a very accurate gauge of flow. If you compare a Koralia with a MJ, they are totally different. Koralias give off a diffused flow, whereas an MJ will drill a hole.
With the flow that the Koralias put out, I would return these and get the 4's.

For what it's worth, I use 2 of the #4's in a 65g. If you add in the return it comes out to around 53X turnover. I am thinking, I am going to get another 4.

 

[reefkprZ]

Return pumps, UV's, etc. are not really adding flow in the tank & is not designed for that purpose.

HUH? anything that moves water in the main tank adds flow... I dont see how it could be other wise, how would a maxijet 1200 alone differ from a maxijet 1200 with a uv on it? you may get less flow due to the spiraling but you still get more flow than not having the device at all. same with my return pumps, I have two on my 65 with three outlets pointing in different direction to push flow into different areas, If I were to shut off my returns I see a signifigant drop off of flow in my tank.

I would reiterate and say: dont rely on your returns and preiphial equipment to provide your flow alone, often the equipment reduces the output to far lower than advertized GPH. Visual assesment of flow is a more accurate way to guage if you have enough flow, far more so than just tallying the total GPH and turnover rate.

 

[reefs4life]

Well thanks for all the replies guys. I received the Koralia's today and the water seems to be moving fine but I want to add more. One question...might be stupid but anyways....whats the strongest pump I can use on my return? I don't think I have anywhere close to the max. The return pipe is 1" and the overflow tube is an 1 and a half

 

[NYreefNoob]

i have 2 2's and a nano in a 50g breeder and thinking i should have atleast gotten the 3's, also depends on what corals you want to keep

 

[reefs4life]

Can anyone recommend me a really strong pump that meets the maximum overflow for a 75 gallon tank with a 1 inch return and a 1 and half inch overflow tube

 

[DevIouS]

HUH?

& I'll reply back to your post with the same HUH????

You said the same thing I said....with more words in between.

Return pumps, UV's, etc. are not really adding flow in the tank & is not designed for that purpose.
Mostly all pumps exaggerate the GPH listed.

you may get less flow due to the spiraling
dont rely on your returns and preiphial equipment to provide your flow alone, often the equipment reduces the output to far lower than advertized GPH.

Of course it will add slight water movement. Who denies that?
Using these devices for extra flow to benefit corals or live-stock.....not happening.
You are not adding a Maxi-jet 1200 to a UV unit. That defeats the purpose designed for it's use...... pushing a unit with that much flow.

I'm sure you know the head-loss of a return pump when used (from what it's actually listed) or the effects of using an outrageous GPH return pump, more than the plumbing or sump can handle.
Again...."these devices are not intended for the purpose of adding more flow."

Visual assesment of flow is a more accurate way to guage if you have enough flow, far more so than just tallying the total GPH and turnover rate.

Honestly....I would throw the turnover rate figures out the window...
....I go by the movement of the corals & enough flow

There's an echo in the house.

 

[reefkprZ]

Yes I pretty much do echo your sentiments on the gauging of flow and visual assemsent, the only part I didnt agree with was stating that they dont really add flow, I factor in everything and disregard nothing

Of course it will add slight water movement. Who denies that?
Using these devices for extra flow to benefit corals or live-stock.....not happening.

my return pumps (2 on my 65g) add a ton of flow into areas that because of the way the returns are pointing those areas do not require individual powerheads pointing in that direction. so i would say I do rely on my returns and guage them as a factor of flow. that was pretty much the only dissagreement there, you dont consider the periphial equipment into flow and I do. I do consider the reduction of flow from them due to the devices or head pressure, but if I were to disregard the flow out of my returns and direct more flow into the same area I could cause problems. also I use one of my returns to force surface water back into the column to the benifit of my corals and live stock through increased oxygen exchange and flow to the corals directly under the return.

I would have to say its just a slightly different way of looking at it instead of an actual disagreement.

 

[Tonyscoots84]

:lol2: I use 2 koralia 3's in my 30 gallon cube :biggrin: i would of listened to them and got the 4's

 

[Tonyscoots84]

for a return pump the return water especially on a 75 gallon should not be so strong since you want the flow through the sump slow. i would personally after using this pump go with it again an internal eheim pump.. i would go with the highest one and just dial it back.

the idea behind this is to get all your flow from powerheads and or (i forget the name of the thing i had) not from the return

by having a slower flow through your sump it allows the skimmer to actually work correctly..

 

[reefkprZ]

by having a slower flow through your sump it allows the skimmer to actually work correctly..

I disagree, by slowing down flow you end up reskimming the same water, not allowing your skimmer to deal with full concentration water, which is where your skimmer will pull the most stuff, if you reskim, water concentrations of the skimmed materials are lower, allowing your skimmer to pull less. the common misconception is just what you stated, flow through your sump needs to be slow, many experts agree (as well as myself who is not an expert) that turnover in a sump as well as flow through should be fast enough to prevent settleing, Unless you are using a section as a detritus trap.

 

[BZOFIQ]

^^^ I would have to disagree here as you don't need a niagra falls effect in the sump. The water entering the sump enters just that, the sump, unless you have your drain connected directly to the skimmer (is that even possible) and the water not draining anywhere else. Whether you have a high flow or low flow, the water still goes around your skimmer and not entirely into the skimmer. Reduced flow may be responsible for a fraction of loss of skimmer's efficiency. Higher flow will only allow the water to rush past the skimmer even faster. Now I am not saying that there should be no flow in the sump, I am just saying that you don't need NIAGRA FALLS effect in there.

Here is an excerpt...

"

I've heard that too much flow is a problem. Is that true?
In the past, many hobbyists purchased huge energy-demanding pumps to push water into their display tank and create tons of flow. Their goal was to use the return pump as the main flow in the aquarium so they didn't have to look at any powerheads in their display. While that sounds nice in theory, it doesn't work well for several reasons. The main reason is microbubbles. I've seen big, long sumps with a series of baffles and sponge blocks used to help fight those tiny bubbles and avoid the eyesore of white bubbles blowing all around their reef tank.
For years aquarists have set guidelines about how much flow a reef tank needs based upon the types of corals kept in it, but that flow rate has nothing to do with the water passing through the sump. If the sump is very small, a very slow return pump is best. If the sump is larger, it is possible to use a bigger pump and still have no problems. The general rule I recommend is to multiply the display tank’s volume by three or five, and get a pump that matches that number. If the display tank holds 100 gallons, a 500gph return pump is sufficient. If the aquarist puts a 40-gallon sump under that tank, 500gph flowing through it should be trouble-free.
The benefit of using a smaller return pump is threefold: less heat is added to the water, less electricity is consumed around the clock, and there is a far lower likelihood of having to deal with microbubbles. If you are trying to be “green” (environmentally conscious) or just want to save a little money, both on the initial purchase and the ongoing electricity use, getting a smaller return pump is the right choice. Flow in the display tank should be provided with powerheads, a closed loop or some type of stream pump - not the return pump."

and here is the whole article...

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-01/newbie/index.php

 

[Awibrandy]

Just adding my experience. I am by no means an expert, nor do I claim to know tons on reefing. I am far from being scientific, so please take this post in the spirit that it is typed.

I have a 155 Gallon RR Bowfront mixed reef. It has been running with a Eheim 1262 return split into 2 locklines on 1 side of the tank, and a Iwaki 40RLT return split into 2 locklines on the other side of the tank. No power heads in my tank, and everyone seemed happy.
I was told repeatedly by numerous people that I DID NOT HAVE enough flow for my animals. So because I very much care for the welfare of my animals I purchased 4 #3 Koralias. I installed 2 in the back behind the rocks, and the other 2 at opposite sides of the tank. After numerous adjustments I finally removed the 2 on the sides. My corals were not in the least bit happy about all this flow. I have come close to loosing a head on each of my torch, and frogspawn which seem to be recovering now that the extra flow has been removed.
And NO absolutely not were the pumps directed at any time directly at any coral. And the 1 pocillopora in my tank is still dying the flow did nothing for it either.
Like I stated above; Just sharing my personal experience no need to flame me.

 

[fernandokng]

There is a pretty good discussion about the flow through the sump here:
http://www.cvreefers.org/showthread.php?t=9795

I have a slow flow going through my sump, but after reading it, I might consider some change...

Not to say there's one right way of doing something, but it's just different way