Please help!!!! Tank down!!!!!

[nittinid]

Oman where do I start..i jumped into the saltwater world about 5 months ago..my first salt water tank was a 30 gallon tank running off a 20 gallon sump.In the sump i ran a fluval 105, protein skimmer(60g)and a 9watt U.V sterolizer and a 300 gph return pump.I bought 45 lbs of live rock and 30 lbs of live sand for the display tank. 20 lbs of live sand 5 lbs of refugium rubble for my sump... I bought a clown a Sailfin tang 2 peppermint shrimp and one cleaner shrimp 2 turbo snails and 2 large snails.My tank finished its cycle in about 7 weeks. Three months went by my tank was a little on the green algae side...but was running pretty good...levels were

salt gravity 1.028
ammonia 0. ppm
nitrite 0 ppm
nitrate 10 ppm
ph 8.5
temp 78.6 f

About a month ago I decided to upgrade to a 90 gallon(Drilled)Now before I attempted this..I did some research and learned alot about water perameters and the importance of good water quality. I decided to buy a RO/DI filter and a Phosban reactor.I also bought a fluval 405 for better biological, an additional 55 lbs of live rock and an additional 80 lbs of live sand.I also upgraded to a 30 gallon sump.

Now my plan was to fill the 90 gallon tank with 60 gallons of RO/DI water.....(remove my live stock from 30 gallon) and transfer the 30 gallons into the 90 gallon tank...and just transfer the 20 gallon sump with an additional 10 gallons RO/DI water to the 30 gallon sump...I double dosed it with special blend and Niteout and let it run for 24 hours....transfering as much bacteria as possible.....

About a week ago I decided it was time...I had everything mapped out and i did the research...and it was time to get my cold feet wet...I transfered all the water the way i decribed it and let it run for 24 hours....the day after I tested my water and everything was practicly at zero....so i decided to aclamate my live stock into the new tank....slowly of course... they all made it to the new tank with very little shock...however i did notice that the peppermint shrimp were floating around for about five minutes...until they got hold of a rock in the tank where the clinched onto...and hid.

About three days after the transfer I noticed that the 2 peppermint shrimp were dead...and my snails haven't moved from the spot that they were in when i introduced them to the tank...I checked my waters and they read.

salt gravity 1.026
ammonia 0.25
nitrite 0 ppm
nitrate 10 ppm
ph 8.4
temp 78.6 f

The day after i noticed that the bottom shells of all my snails were hanging....when i took them out of the water i noticed that my cleaner shrimp was dead as well. Later on that same day I was noticing that my Sailfin tang and my clown tang were acting kind of funny...swimming fine but every few minutes they would burst out in speed from one side of the tank to the other in a kind of rage as if they were going into convultions...but snapped out of it after a minute or two.I checked the waters and were no different from the previous test i ran the day before...

The very next day....they both died...

I'm new to this internet site and would appreciate any info or theory you might have on why my tank crashed,if you see that i did something wrong please tell me...I'm so puzzled on what happened...and have no idea what i should do next....should I empty out the water and start over....should I let it just run for a couple of weeks the way it is....could it just have been the additional 60 gallons that were introduced that caused this ?

Currently i have the tank running without the protein skimmer and without the u.v sterolizer. I'm figuring i need to build up more bacteria and add trace elements.

Thanks for listening...and i would appreciate any feedback....please help...

 

[jay1335]

Where did you get the 90g tank? Was it brand new?

 

[nittinid]

Yes it was brand new drilled.I special ordered it from pet land...would that make a difference? They did send it to me drilled with the overflow kit.

 

[qy7400]

How about the rock and sand, sounds like the 55lbs you added after wasn't fully cured especially if your ammonia spiked to .25.

 

[jay1335]

Ive seen people get used tanks that had copper used in it and that will kill inverts very fast. It sounds like you started a mini cycle with the new tank. When did you last test the water?

 

[nittinid]

I bought the live sand at petland and i ordered the live rock from live aquaria. When they shipped me the live rock they said it was cured...but i let it cure in a plastic tub with a whisper 20 (filter)filtering for 2 weeks....i changed the water every three days until i saw that there was no more die off..the rock lost its colors and turned a white yellowish color.i figured it was cured so i introduced it to the 90 gallon with the previous 45 lbs i had in my 30 gallon...do you think it wasent fully cured?

 

[nittinid]

well...when it was delivered it was tightly wrapped with bubble rap...and it looked new...the silicon wasent discolored...i last tested my waters 2 days ago....

salt gravity 1.026
ammonia 0.25
nitrite 0
nitrate 5 ppm
ph 8.4
temp 78.7

what do you mean mini cycle? im lost...

 

[JimmyR1rider]

What he means by mini cycle is when you add new rock, especially if it isnt fully cured, it can throw off the levels in your tank and cause a small jump in ammonia, nitrite and nitrate its just like when you cycled the tank in the first place, just not as severe.

If your ammonia spiked it means it probably was followed up by some level of nitrite- which any level of nitrite is toxic to your livestock and finally went to nitrates, again, same as your original cycle just on a smaller scale.

You added a bunch of new rock and sand so I would agree it probably caused a small cycle to happen, especially if the amounts of sand and rock you added was almost equal to the original amount you had in your 30 gallon, which it probably was since you went to a 90.

Sorry for your loss.

Also if your worried that the tank wasnt brand new and may have had copper you can buy a copper test kit and test your water to rule that out, but if it was wrapped tightly in bubble wrap Id say it was brand new and the copper thing most likely isnt something to be concerned about.

 

[jay1335]

Are you familiar with the cycle a new tank goes through? If you add too much load to the bacteria that are in your system it will put you into a "mini" cycle where it will spike your levels the same way a new tank cycle would go. Depending how much load you add in it can be real bad. The bacteria cant keep up with what you added then stuff dies and adds more that the bacteria cant keep up with causing a crash.

 

[nittinid]

Oh ok...thanks guys...i understand now...i guess my best bet would be just to let it run for a few weeks and let it cycle again...i am familiar with the cycle process i guess i just didnt see that it wasent enough bacteria........thanks guys...lesson learned....back to square one..

 

[jay1335]

You also want to make sure that you get everything that died out of the tank. and I mean EVERYTHING. More the rocks make sure there are no snails or hermits that could come back to haunt you. Keep an eye on your levels and start over. Sorry for you loss Ive been there too.

 

[JimmyR1rider]

Thats right....you get to be patient all over again

 

[jay1335]

Sorry I meant move the rocks

 

[KathyC]

Did you use the Fluval 105 on the 90g that was on the 1st tank - at all?

Did the skimmer or UV light sit with no power and not get emptied upon introduction to the new tank?

Did you mix the new SW in the new tank or before you added it to the tank?

As mentioned between the 'live' sand (which really wasn't) and the 'live' rock that couldn't have been totally cured, add those to a new tank and you were sure to have a mini-cycle.

I would NOT add any further Nite-Out to the tank (or Special Blend). IMO Nite-Out contains bacteria that will temporarily raise your nitrites and that is not something you want to do right now.

Do you know your Alk level?

IMO - I'd leave it set up and allow it to totally finishing cycling and then start with a small clean up crew and see how they fare.

 

[nittinid]

i went to pet land after my last post and asked for a copper tester but they said they don't sell them....i also bought more test solutions....and to my shock...my levels spiked from the last time i tested them...

salt gravity 1.026
ammonia 1.0
nitrite 0
nitrate 20 ppm
ph 8.4
temp 79.0

So i guess that was it...you guys hit it right on the button...thanks for your help..
oh...where could i get a copper tester?...and just for future references...if copper is ever present in the tank? Will that mean ill never be able to have inverts? and is there a way to remove the copper if its present? thanks for the help guys...trust me not wondering about what happened is gonna let me sleep a lot better tonight...

 

[nittinid]

yes kathy i did use the 105 along with the 405... i also loaded the 405 with 2 bags of chemi pure...2 bags of charcoal and 2 chambers filled with bioballs and the last 2 chambers with pieces of coral...i guess it just wasent enough... im looking into a reef master test kit....i think im gonna order one tonight... so no i dont know my alk....thanks i think that's what i'm gonna do...patience is the key now....
oh and yes i transfered all the water that was inside the protein skimmer as well as the u.v sterolizer.... oh and im not trying to bite your finger but they guy at the pet store said the special blend and the nite out would help....if you say i should stop then what should i use to boost up my bacteria?

 

[jay1335]

it is very rare for copper to be in a new tank. the way copper gets into a tank is through medication given to fish. and I believe its only freshwater fish that copper is used for, but dont quote me on that. The copper sits in the silicone used to seal the tank. I was told it is nearly impossible to rid a tank of copper once it is used. but your tank was new so I wouldnt worry about copper at all forget I even said it What has happened to your inverts is a cause of the mini cycle. they are usually the first to react to a problem with the tank and yes corals are inverts. As you progress through reefing you will learn to see what your corals are telling you.

 

[nittinid]

Thanks for the heads up jay....i guess im going fishing...theres still one turbo snail that's not accounted for....
well i didnt have any corals...I knew i wasn't ready for them... but inverts i guess will be my meters sort of speak..
how long do you think i should wait before i add reef cleaners...i know the diatoms (brown algae)are gonna be a problem i would like to have a clean up crew to help....

 

[jay1335]

No problem man!! Like Kathy said, when your water parameters are right start with a small crew. That way you dont lose too much money if there is still a problem.

 

[KathyC]

yes kathy i did use the 105 along with the 405... i also loaded the 405 with 2 bags of chemi pure...2 bags of charcoal and 2 chambers filled with bioballs and the last 2 chambers with pieces of coral...i guess it just wasent enough... im looking into a reef master test kit....i think im gonna order one tonight... so no i dont know my alk....thanks i think that's what i'm gonna do...patience is the key now....
oh and yes i transfered all the water that was inside the protein skimmer as well as the u.v sterolizer.... oh and im not trying to bite your finger but they guy at the pet store said the special blend and the nite out would help....if you say i should stop then what should i use to boost up my bacteria?

My concern about the UV, skimmer & most especially the Fluval 105 is if they were turned off and allowed to sit unused for 1 hour or more?
If so, the bacteria in them died due to lack of oxygen and that is an awful soup to add to a new tank. It will rapidly boost your ammonia which in turn raises your nitrites - all really bad for the tank.

The difference between me & the guy at the LFS is that I am not making any money off you Your bacterial levels will build on their own without any additives that may -or may not - be 'alive', but more importantly without throwing off the balance the tank needs to develop based upon what is living in the tank (hope that made sense).

I highly doubt you need to get a copper kit, all that you have described can be caused by a cycle due to the new tank and semi live rock & sand you added. Your low bioload (from before the change and based on what was in the original tank) could not sustain - and deal with - the extra load from the new additions of rock & sand.