Anyone run a skimmerless SPS tank

[cali_reef]

I can't understand why would someone not use all the tools available to run a tank as efficient as possible:irked:

I guess anyone can try to walk to California instead of flying, it is doable but why?? What is the point?

 

[fritz]

I was just looking and reading up on some of the "natural" tanks that people run. It seemed interesting and some of them did look rather fantastic. Provided you can manage to keep your nutrient levels where they should be, with a natural setup you'd be providing your corals with tons of food which should be a good thing. It even makes sense that if you could achieve that balance you would see fantastic growth and coloration like in the wild. Oversized skimmers are great but they do pull out the good with the bad. The only downside to the natural setup, to me seemed to be finding that balance which only seems possible in a setup like Sean's or Herman's. Low stocking and a fuge that has about 50% of the volume of your main display.

Then House posts his "What have I done" and I think that I need a bigger skimmer.....

 

[inline6]

fritz,

I have yet to see any nitrate readings in my mixed reef tank.
I don't know if it is true about the large volume of sump idea. I believe in the natural system myself but I believe it can be better managed in a smaller nano tank believe it or not. The reasoning is that you can do more volume of water changes to get out the unused nutrients out.
My tank is only 26g w/ a 3.75g fuge, I do about a 3g water change every week. Oh and I do keep some SPSs w/ mixed results. Some have turned quite brown, but others have colored up like monteporas and milliporas.
The ones that have colored up do indeed have incredible PE.

 

[fritz]

Makes sense, you know come to think of it I wasn't paying attention to what varieties of SPS they were keeping in the natural tanks. I guess if you went with some of the more tolerant varieties you'd see much better results.

 

[inline6]

Yes, milliporas and montis are supposedly quite tolerant and adaptable of nutrient high water conditions, I find little tiny specks that have broken off accidentally and grow to whole new stalks in only a few weeks.

 

[Sean]

Just so everyone knows I'm not planning on keeping my system skimmerles just haven't found a skimmer from a company I want. I know I can keep the tank like it is but I do want to add more fish I'm just scared to do it without a skimmer.
Jackson come down and tell me if you like my skimmerless tank. I get many compliments a day on how beautiful it is.
Fritz I keep all types of SPS not just the "easy ones"
cali- as far as using all available tools I use what I know is necessary. I don't feel the need to use everything as long as the person understands what they are doing by not having this or that.

 

[jhale]

Oh yeah I use tap water

that's just crazy talk. :bigeyes2:

is this going to be an experiment to show skimmers and ro filters are not needed?

tap water really?

 

[fritz]

that's just crazy talk. :bigeyes2:

I couldn't agree more. I did the experiment to show that tap water can work. I can tell you how it ends. :headache:
My Cyano was so bad for awhile I'm pretty sure it could have eaten and digested some mysis....(joking)

Then again I was wise enough to not run a fuge, under skim and not run carbon in addition to using tap water.

 

[Sean]

yeah but it's not easy. I would not recomend it but it's what I have to do for now.
Tap water yes tap water and no skimmer. Just another way to prove the point that yes it can be done. But please do not try this at home.

 

[loismustdie]

Why do people consider a tank without a skimmer natural? A skimmer simulates the foaming of waves when they crash on the beach leaving their crap loaded foam behind for the fauna there to take in. It doesn't get more natural than that with such ease.
I'd never say you can't go skimmerless, but I think you're only making more work for yourself.

 

[Sean]

Going skimmerless is not easy it takes a lot more work and you have pay a lot more attention to the tank. It's not so bad for me since it's at my shop and someone is there 8 hours a day. Don't try this at home unless you understand what you are dong.

Some people consider skimmerless a more natural system because it used less mechanical devices. The more equipment the less natural.

 

[herman]

I think you're only making more work for yourself.

Right on the money!! That all it comes down to.

 

[jhale]

Some people consider skimmerless a more natural system because it used less mechanical devices. The more equipment the less natural.

:Thinking:
I do not think we can use the word "natural" when it comes to our reef tanks. I get what your implying Sean, the less crap we use on the tank the closer to nature the system is. but in doing that you just get closer to the chaos nature will create in a small closed system. all nature wants to do when left to her own devices is destroy our tank.
like you said it takes more work without a skimmer, but I don't think it makes for a better system.
in order to recreate the pristine conditions found on most reefs, skimmers, carbon, gfo's, uv, ro/di and for some ozone are the most important tools
we've got. just my 5 cents

 

[Sean]

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/attachments/vendor-sales/7961-aquatic-creation-picturesx11947x-p1010001.jpg?d=1146352490

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/attachments/vendor-sales/7962-aquatic-creation-picturesx11947x-p1010003.jpg?d=1146352490


Here's some bad shots of my skimmerless reef.

You don't ned all the equiptment you may think you need but all the equiptment you mentioned has its purpose. What I'm trying to explain is understanding the equiptments function understand your aquarium and use what is needed to get the results you want. To say you must have this or that is kind of ignorant and can be proven wrong again and again.

 

[loismustdie]

Sean, I don't believe your comment there is fair or true for that matter. I've seen so many literally brag about their success in keeping SPS with tap water and no skimmers, but the fact is, "old tank syndrome" sets in signifigantly faster in these systems AT THE HOBBYIST LEVEL than with those using RO/DI, skimming. You are with your tank all day and can test and adjust. Most of us here have jobs that pull us away from fish tanks. You may be giving some the impression that they have a few spare hours a day and will be able to maintain such a tank.
Also, you and I have stated numerous times on this site that it is more cost effective to spend the money on equipment now than it is to spend more later down the road on necessary equipment and replacing live stock. Stand by the equipment you sell and advise we buy and use it on your tanks.
While everyone in this hobby is very quick to boast success, there is much more reluctance to open up and admit failure. Most of these low tech tap systems seem to disappear into the pages while those with proper set ups seem to last and last in the tank threads. We all know of someone who mentions success with tap water, but where are the threads when the tank crashed?

 

[fritz]

I think that time is the best measure of what "can be done." I ran a low flow, overstocked, BB, over fed, under skimmed, tap water, no fuge, no carbon mixed reef with great success......for one year and then all hell broke loose.


"You can drive with your feet if you want to, that don't make it a good idea!" -Chris Rock

That being said most of the advances and greater understanding in this hobby come from someone trying "what can't be done."

 

[jhale]

to be fair Sean did say not to try his methods at home

If you were to visit him I'm sure he'd be happy to sell you a
giant skimmer and a ro/di set up.

for whatever reason he's trying something different.
maybe he just wants to be different

 

[Deanos]

for whatever reason he's trying something different.
maybe he just wants to be different

We know the reason. He said, explicitly in fact, he hasn't yet found a skimmer from a company he wants.

 

[fritz]

I didn't mean that it's not a good idea. I just like Chris Rock. I think it's great and my hat's off to everyone that experiments with their setups. That's how we all learn, that and Deanos' links

 

[Sean]

Sean, I don't believe your comment there is fair or true for that matter. I've seen so many literally brag about their success in keeping SPS with tap water and no skimmers, but the fact is, "old tank syndrome" sets in signifigantly faster in these systems AT THE HOBBYIST LEVEL than with those using RO/DI, skimming. You are with your tank all day and can test and adjust. Most of us here have jobs that pull us away from fish tanks. You may be giving some the impression that they have a few spare hours a day and will be able to maintain such a tank.
Also, you and I have stated numerous times on this site that it is more cost effective to spend the money on equipment now than it is to spend more later down the road on necessary equipment and replacing live stock. Stand by the equipment you sell and advise we buy and use it on your tanks.
While everyone in this hobby is very quick to boast success, there is much more reluctance to open up and admit failure. Most of these low tech tap systems seem to disappear into the pages while those with proper set ups seem to last and last in the tank threads. We all know of someone who mentions success with tap water, but where are the threads when the tank crashed?

You need to read everything I've written before blasting me with your comments

1 I said I will be adding a skimmer
2 I said over and over again do not try this at home
3 I also said it takes a lot of work if you want to use tap water.
4 I have 18 small fish in a 500 gallon system

if you read everything I think youd undestand what I'm doing to keep this aquarium healthy