Need SPS Exp Opinions Please

[d5332]

What are the reasons i can't seem to keep any sps corals alive other than montipora caps and or encrustring?

1. 1.025
2. 76 80 farenheit
3. calcium is 440*480
4. alk is 9*10
5. Nitrates 20 just went up bc I was trying to decrease on vodka
6. Phos is slighty over as well, increased vodka this week
7. over 700 watts of VHO and HO light output
8. PH I do not know, ordered a simple digital ph monitor this week but please don't just help me out by saying "that must be it, since you dont know the ph it must be the ph.

I have spent hundreds in the last year alone in store purchased sps frags and they all die.

Some become covered in sediment and stuff so I added a mp10 ,mp40, wp40 and now use 100 micron socks which by the way have me working too hard in cleaning just to try to keep sps corals.

Eshopps s200 skimmer
BM 180 Hero skimmer
Why two skimmers because its a 120 gallon tank with two skimmers that move 750gph so that seems to me like excellent water treatment plus i got awesome deals on both skimmers and they ended up fitting.

Still I can't keep a SPS frag alive. I can keep starfish alive, shrimp, other corals but not SPS corals.

I have read that LPS corals release chemicals and if dominant in a tank said chemicals will kill SPS corals, is this true and is it as dramatically impacting as I have read?

What can it be?

 

[d5332]

one last thing, no, parameters do not swing on a daily basis, ranges have been recorded over a period of almost 1 year

 

[Dk638]

I'm far from an expert but do you run gfo for phosphate removal? A better phosphate reading would help, what is " a little over"? Also nitrates are a bit high should be .2-1.

 

[d5332]

1.0 phosphate reading

Yes, I run GFO but i had shut down the reactor a few weeks back and cut back on vodka.

Phosphates were 0 and sps still die, phos is up because I have been experimenting but the problem is not new, i can never keep a branching sps

 

[jackson6745]

Relying on Vodka to keep po4 low is not going to work well long term IMO. Your alk is high for carbon dosing as well. You want to be around 7 DKH if you must continue with vodka dosing. This could very well be the cause. Your Phosphate is likely high , and testkits do a poor job at reading po4 levels. Notice how fast algae grows on glass....... this is your po4 testkit.

You can fix the problem by performing a initial LARGE water changed ( I would do around 75gallons). IMO stop the vodka dosing, get on a more aggressive water change schedule, and run GFO 24/7.

 

[d5332]

Oh boy, stop vodka dosing, I actually started bc of the website Maleev keeps and other online docs that suggested it was ok.

GFO is back on, guess I'll keep it on again.

From what I have read, carbon dosing lowers PH and lowers ALK not raises it.

I will continue reading and will perform searches for articles of vodka increasing alkalinity but thus far only found lowers ph and lowers alk, have I been reading misleading docs all this time?

Relying on Vodka to keep po4 low is not going to work well long term IMO. Your alk is high for carbon dosing as well. You want to be around 7 DKH if you must continue with vodka dosing. This could very well be the cause. Your Phosphate is likely high , and testkits do a poor job at reading po4 levels. Notice how fast algae grows on glass....... this is your po4 testkit.

You can fix the problem by performing a initial LARGE water changed ( I would do around 75gallons). IMO stop the vodka dosing, get on a more aggressive water change schedule, and run GFO 24/7.

 

[jackson6745]

There is a lot of information out there, some better than others. Reading is important but observation is more important. What you're doing obviously is failing. Time for a change. If you have never grown out an SPS reef before, you have no business carbon dosing. You must have a very good understanding of nutrient balance. Using conventional nutrient export methods such as water changes, filter socks, GFO, and carbon will be very effective and your alk can be maintained from 7dkh-12dkh with no problems (avoid big swings). You will not get weird tip burn or bleach your acros from carbon overdose. Just maintain po4 at low levels and you will be amazed how well your SPS do. Once again use the algae growth on your glass as your testkit. Just a slight haze every other day is acceptable. If you get more than this or see green growth on glass, po4 is too high.

 

[d5332]

Well, appreciate the feedback and politely disagree.

Carbon dosing works, many with sps tanks do it.

No I do not keep sps dominated nor have any desire to do so. I am not up for the challenge, not my thing. However, u have seen beautiful setups with lots of lps and a few large sps pieces.

In almost 12 months vodka has allowed me to not have to change water, just add supps with parameters many would say are more than alright.

I politely write that you are not helping much, not me nor anyone reading.

 

[d5332]

Anyone out there that is carbon dosing with sps, greatly appreciate some feedback please.

Heck, carbon dosing and using gfo since I have also read that some ppl don't use gfo to try to be chemical free.

There has to be someone out there

 

[jackson6745]

No water change in 12 months and you wonder why your SPS die? I don't know why you're taking this so personal. I'll stay off your thread because you obviously know the answers.

 

[JonnyJ]

What Jackson said, the man definitely knows his stuff.

 

[MIKE NY]

I wouldn't dismiss Rich's responses so quickly..like myself he is a long time SPS keeper and I always have admired his beautiful corals.....but to answer your question I carbon dose and run GFO 24/7 along with carbon, a large fuge filled with chaeto and a large skimmer...the key with SPS is stability within the proper levels along with flow and light... I also agree with Rich that when dosing carbon the alk levels should be lower. I keep my alk between 7.5 and 8.5...it will fluctuate over a few weeks. I also do weekly 10% W/Cs not only to reduce the little nutriants that are there, but more importantly to replemish the trace elements....many of which that can not be maintained otherwise. Also even the best tests kits are not that accurate, but will give you a general idea of levels especially phos....I do more of visual inspection for that regardless of what the tests say...if I have to clean my glass more than once a week I know the nutriant levels are rising...HTH

 

[d5332]

I dont mean any disrespect to anyone's ways of keeping sps tanks. some have calcium reactors, some have dosing pumps, some buy real reef rock, some use funky filters, there are just so many ways I was asking for evaluation not total dismissal bc it did not jive with a specific manner of doing things.

I laid out what my parameters are and what I add to my tank which is not something everyone indicates when posting why do my sps die.

What I do was completely dismised despite the fact that I am copying others that keep mainly sps tanks so it is obvious that there is more than one way to do this.

If my alkalinity should be lower than I will work on lowering it, I know a reef page that says alkalinity is ok between 8 and 11 but I will work on learning how to safely lower it to 7-8.

I am asking for feedback on what to tweak maybe even consider changing not to be dismissed, jackson and anyone keeping sps tanks def know more than I do in regards to sps, hello, mine die but there is more than one approach to successfully keeping sps, that's my point.

I have socks,gfo, carbon, far more skimming than needed 99% of the year zero nitragtes and zero phosphates, I took gfo off and reduced vodka dose to try to useless and saw a spike, corrective measures have been taken.

I currently have a blue linkia, red linkia, shrimp and plenty of other stuff alive in my tank so the vodka is not bad.

For nutrient export I dont think I am willing to go beyond what I have already implemented which is macros amongst other plants, 2 reputable skimmers, 100 micron socks and vodka; I may very well need more nutrient export ways who knows...

I dont need this thread to be 20 pages long, what I am getting from it is the following:

Figure out how to lower alkalinity
Maybe consider small water changes while carbon dosing

 

[kres1024]

I keep my alk between 9-10 ,with vinegar dosing and gfo in a full sps tank with some sensitive colonies , no issues colors are great so a higher alk works well also

 

[d5332]

No kidding! hoping and assuming you read my parameters, anything I should tweak in your opinion?

I keep my alk between 9-10 ,with vinegar dosing and gfo in a full sps tank with some sensitive colonies , no issues colors are great so a higher alk works well also

 

[kres1024]

No kidding! hoping and assuming you read my parameters, anything I should tweak in your opinion?

Do try get nitrates down to 5-10 not completely 0
I personally use vinegar instead of vodka ..vodka has a tendency to produce cyno outbreaks ..if you notice burnt tips on your sps cut back on carbon dosing

 

[Geraud]

Can you describe how your SPS'es are dying?
Aka, does it start by a discoloration of the tips that extends to the rest of the body, or does it looks like the skin is just shedding away?

What SPS'es have you tried? Easy ones like Montipora digitata, or hard to keep Acroporas? What other corals do you keep in your tank? Where did you place your new arrivals? There are a lot of factors to consider, including predation, getting burnt by large sweeping tentacles, chemistry, too much light right away, etc etc.

ps: No matter what, if indeed you can maintain corals without water changes etc etc, if you are starting with SPSes you should probably start by doing what is most common to most reefers... experimental recipes come later, once you have succeeded with the "standard".

 

[Pseudo]

You are going to get a bunch of different methodologies on the husbandry of SPS. Not all of them are right but sometimes mixing too many can spell doom. Just from reading your posts tells me that you haven't really studied the Vodka/carbon dosing method. You alk is too high but you say that "you read somewhere that alk between 8 and 11 is ok" YES IT IS but not when carbon dosing. High alk can lead to burnt tips, tissue thinning and death for SPS.

Water changes. Everyone has their opinion. I personally favor water changes on a normal schedule of 10% a week and a 50% every 6 months (that's when I clean out my skimmer and sump of detritus and overflow box). Reason being is organic and in-organic buildup (heavy metal and such) that aren't exported through regular skimming. You wouldn't filter your bath water as drinking water would you? Some people use fuges that have plant life that utilize these materials but then again you pull them out when overgrown as a means of export.

There are major differences between keeping LPS, softies and SPS. the first 2 do not require the same husbandry as SPS. SPS need more a low nutrient, low phosphate, High light and higher flow than LPS and Softies like zoo's and paly's. They tend to live on sandy lagoons and can expunge detritus unlike SPS that cannot and require flow to do so.

In a mixed reef, if you can attain the right environment for SPS your other corals will benefit also (except for the lighting requirements). Being able to keep Softies and LPS by no means makes it possible to keep SPS.

Question? Why are you carbon dosing? I do it becauseI have a large bio-load of fish and corals (mostly SPS and want to keep my nitrates and p04 down and it also benefits the growth of my SPS). If you don't have algae growth or cyano I see no reason to dose Vodka.

2 skimmers is useless in a 120g. Sell them both and get one good one. It will be more consistent than 2 skimmers competing for the same waste especially if you want to keep up with no water changes.

Keep your methods simple and you will have success. BTW Jackson is one of the better SPS keepers on many sites. He keeps some of the rarer sps colorful with crazy growth when others cant. His help on my tanks have been invaluable. But I tend to take what I need from our conversations and improve upon them. Knowledge is King!

Pics would also help us determine what is really going on (burn, color loss , rtn/stn, ect...)

HTH

 

[reefman]

There is a lot of information out there, some better than others. Reading is important but observation is more important. What you're doing obviously is failing. Time for a change. If you have never grown out an SPS reef before, you have no business carbon dosing. You must have a very good understanding of nutrient balance. Using conventional nutrient export methods such as water changes, filter socks, GFO, and carbon will be very effective and your alk can be maintained from 7dkh-12dkh with no problems (avoid big swings). You will not get weird tip burn or bleach your acros from carbon overdose. Just maintain po4 at low levels and you will be amazed how well your SPS do. Once again use the algae growth on your glass as your testkit. Just a slight haze every other day is acceptable. If you get more than this or see green growth on glass, po4 is too high.

agree :thrash:

 

[d5332]

ok, will do

Do try get nitrates down to 5-10 not completely 0
I personally use vinegar instead of vodka ..vodka has a tendency to produce cyno outbreaks ..if you notice burnt tips on your sps cut back on carbon dosing