resons for sps browning

[Sea Turtle]

Before adding any more hermits I would vacuum the sand to remove any built up detritus (sp?).

Is this ok to do or could I bomb the tank? You know now that I think about it, I have been moving some sand around lately and the sand sifting goby really did a job. Do you really think that this is a good idea? The guy at the lfs told me not to move the sand...

 

[leftovers]

From your pictures of your tank you have less than 1" of sand. You can siphon it just fine. The low pH is most likely what are affecting your animals the lights could be but im not holding my breath on that one.

The water changes along with pH buffer will do for now. The lights being new though should be just fine.

 

[Anonymous]

Should be, but outside of these other two things, and without some other information, it seems to me that the last things he could address are the lighting (increase wattage) and the source water itself. I honestly don't see how adding hermits is going to help the corals color back up, because it looks to me like something's wrong with the zooxanthellae. I've not found a pH of 8 to be a negative for corals, and while I'd like to see it a wee bit higher, I'm not so sure that's the culprit (don't remember seeing previous pH readings).

Turt, I haven't read through the whole thread, but I have read this last page. First question, have you tried using real seawater for your water changes (assuming you might have it available)? Second question, are you positive it's not your lighting? Those corals look bleached, not browned out.

I have not tried using real sea water. I live in Connecticut right in the beach which is the Long Island Sound. I really wouldn't want to add this water to my tank at all. I have to get up the nerve just to swim in it. Plus you can't even see your feet knee deep.

That's not what I mean. I mean something like RealOcean, which is filtered and sterilized seawater. Some places you can get it, some you can't (or could, it's been a while for me). If you lived in San Diego you could go to Scripps Aquarium and get it for free, pumped from a spigot, you just have to bring your own containers. My experience has been that when using seawater I had a much easier time with everything else. All specimens just looked and behaved better, plus it removed one area of doubt for me, saved me the time and trouble of mixing and testing other sources and mixes, and.. I just like it better.
Edit: Oh yeah, I don't get rashes from real seawater, but if artificial saltwater hits my arms I break out in a terrible rash. Got a bad sensitivity to it spending all those years with my arms dangling in a tank I suppose. Weird, because poison oak does nothing to me.

As for the lighting. I previously had 10k and have changed to Phoenix 150 watt 14k. I have a coralife unit with two 150 watt MH and two 98 watt blue actinic lights. Could these new lights have anything to do with it. I added them around Christmas.

It's not just the Kelvin rating, how much radiation are they pushing? Any reason you chose not to go with, say, 250W bulbs, whatever the color temp? You went from 150 to 150, no significant change except in color temp (unless manufacturer's specs are saying that they put out significantly more/better radiation, or your previous bulbs were very old... it's been a long time since I've messed specifically with reef lighting).

One last thing, I used to test my dissolved O2 levels on a regular basis. I cannot remember who made the test, but it was a vacuum-sealed vial with reagent, and I was able to sample directly from the water column (I sampled from three levels in deep tanks, sometimes more if they were really large, >200gals), and it would suck the water in and I'd get a pretty decent reading just about immediately. I haven't seen or read anything that would make me think you should test O2, but at this point you may just want to have another base covered.

 

[Ben1]

My pH swings from 7.9-8.2 range with no issues. Anyhow I do not know if it will help or not but since I ran bare bottom for a while I don't like the build-up sand gets and I vacuum mine at every water change now. I can’t get under or behind rocks but the front and sides get it. I may even go back to BB since I like how controllable it is. If your sand is packed with detritus is would be a futile effort to do lots of w/c as the sand would leech nutrient back to the water. I also have not had much luck with poly pads but I run GAC all the time and feel this is a good practice. Like I said though from the pics the tissue looks pale, and IME when a tank has nutrient issues the tissue darkens and RTN's or STN's. My only advice at this point is whatever changes you make do them slowly, stripping the water really fast can stress the corals even further. If you havent run carbon in some time take it easy.

I have gone back and forth on hermits but am still leaning towards they have no place in a reef tank. I don't see the advantage they provide. I perfer snails, pods, mini brittle stars, and if the situation is right maybe a cuke. I like a variety of snails, ceriths for sure, astreas, a few turbos, and if you are carefull not to vacuum them up them nassarius snails. I have tried hermits on a few tanks and don't feel they made a difference, and if they dont have shells they will eat a snail to move up to its shell.

FWIW, I do zeo on my current tank but when I had the 58 I started prodibio and had very nice results once I started it and gave it a chance. I don't know how you feel about bacterial driven systems like zeo, prodibio, neozeo, v/s/v , but if you feel too much polution is your problem they might be worth a read.

 

[Ben1]

By the way I see you are in CT if that one day ground to PA I could check your P04 with my hanna meter for you if you wanted me to. I don't know if it would be worth the cost of mailing it to me though lol.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Anyhow I do not know if it will help or not but since I ran bare bottom for a while I don't like the build-up sand gets and I vacuum mine at every water change now. I can’t get under or behind rocks but the front and sides get it. I may even go back to BB since I like how controllable it is. If your sand is packed with detritus is would be a futile effort to do lots of w/c as the sand would leech nutrient back to the water. I also have not had much luck with poly pads but I run GAC all the time and feel this is a good practice. Like I said though from the pics the tissue looks pale, and IME when a tank has nutrient issues the tissue darkens and RTN's or STN's. My only advice at this point is whatever changes you make do them slowly, stripping the water really fast can stress the corals even further. If you havent run carbon in some time take it easy.

I do feel that you are correct with the nutrient issue. I also think that we could be onto something here with the sand. I keep doing large water changes and there isn't any improvement. Also, I remember when I added the sand sifting goby and he stirred up the whole tank. that was when things started getting real bad. I think that I'm going to stop an buy a sand vacuum syphon this afternoon on my way home from work. How would you recommed I do this? Shoud I just do a small spot per week or can I do the whole tank at once? Will I release it all into the water again?

I have gone back and forth on hermits but am still leaning towards they have no place in a reef tank. I don't see the advantage they provide. I perfer snails, pods, mini brittle stars, and if the situation is right maybe a cuke. I like a variety of snails, ceriths for sure, astreas, a few turbos, and if you are carefull not to vacuum them up them nassarius snails. I have tried hermits on a few tanks and don't feel they made a difference, and if they dont have shells they will eat a snail to move up to its shell.

I feel the same way. I think that I'll add some more snails and bypass the hermits. I really don;t like them in my tank either. Always climbing up on the torch corals when I try to feed them and eating the food right out.

FWIW, I do zeo on my current tank but when I had the 58 I started prodibio and had very nice results once I started it and gave it a chance. I don't know how you feel about bacterial driven systems like zeo, prodibio, neozeo, v/s/v , but if you feel too much polution is your problem they might be worth a read.

I'll take a look into this. Might be something worth trying out sooner or later.

By the way I see you are in CT if that one day ground to PA I could check your P04 with my hanna meter for you if you wanted me to. I don't know if it would be worth the cost of mailing it to me though lol.

Ben, thank you for the offer. I took my water to the lfs and had it tested. They said that there was a small reading of PO4 but not enough to worry about. I think since your so close maybe sometime when I clear this all up we could swap some frags. Let me know what you think about vacuuming the tank tonight. I think we're starting to narrow this problem down. It's going to work out if it kills me.

 

[leftovers]

If your nitrates and nitrites etc all are 0 or well in the normal range. All the additives and hermits in the world wont make a difference.

There must be an issue with either the basic water itself -hence the carbon, or the lighting you are providing.

Do not complicate your system by going to yet another form of maintenance.

Simplify then resolve.

 

[Anonymous]

That's why I've suggested using real seawater. It would eliminate the question of water quality, assuming he's not just doing frequent changes but large (50% or greater) changes to effect, you know, change. The other thing that's not nutrient-related is that lighting, I can't help but wonder what might happen if he slapped at least one 250W over the tank.

 

[Sea Turtle]

That's why I've suggested using real seawater. It would eliminate the question of water quality, assuming he's not just doing frequent changes but large (50% or greater) changes to effect, you know, change. The other thing that's not nutrient-related is that lighting, I can't help but wonder what might happen if he slapped at least one 250W over the tank.

I would love to add a larger light to the tank, but I have always used two 150 watt lights and they seem to work very well.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Ok, I went to the lfs tonight and bought a syphon vacuum. I vacuumed my whole tank. I sure hope that everything isn;t dead tomorrow. Let me tell you what, the sand smelled like **** when I vacuumed it. Smelled like low tide. Sulfer.... I am thinking that this really could have been the problem. Maybe.... Does anyone think that I might have just nuked the tank completely? You know what I was thinking? If it does, at least then I willl know what the problem was. At least the sand is nice and white now.

 

[Ben1]

It should be fine, did you add carbon? If it had not been done in a long time then it may have been wise to do like 25% at a time but if you got most of the detritus and bad water right out then it should be a good move. I would make sure the GAC in running, something like rox .08 in a filter like the phosban or BRS one.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Yes, I added carbon to the sump in a mesh bag. I'm planning on adding another one either tonight or tomorrow. Also, I am running GFO in the reactor. Just replaced it the other night. So far this morning the corals look the same, so I don;t think that it did any damage. I have one sps that is losing tissue by the day. Did notice that the dead tissue had grown a little since last night. That's all though. I have my fingers crossed on this one. Hope this works.

 

[Ben1]

FWIW once you see tissue coming off, faster then a real STN fragging the coral back a bit above the tissue loss, and reglueing the healthy piece's is the best way to prevent it from spreading further.

 

[Anonymous]

I just had an acro that was growing great bleach over night. All the other acros are fine. No changes at all to the tank. Go figure.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I am noticing that some of the corals are slowly getting some of their color back at the tips. I am continuing the water changes, carbon, poly pad and GFO. Also, I think that the sand vavuum had a positive impact as well. Hoping for the best here...

 

[Ben1]

Well good luck!

I am having my own issues, my LM3 remote pump went wacky and added a whole gallon of alk to my tank over a day. For some reason the alk only went up a point and a half from 7 to around 8.5. The pH is running really high now though, but I didnt do anything and the corals look great today really full polyps and all so hopefully the larger water volume worked to save me from a meltdown. Now I gotta take a good look at my LM3 and find out what happened.

Hope all your corals continue to rebound.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I have recently started a new battle with cyano bacteria. I have added carbon, poly pads, vacuum the sand and have been doing large water changes. Now, I am having a problem red and dark brown/black cyano bacteria. It is starting to get a good footing on the tank. I suck it out and its right back again. Could this have anything to do with the sps problem and zoanthids? Also, seeing all that I am doing currently, what should I do about getting rid of this stuff?

 

[Anonymous]

In my experience cyano is a strong indicator of excess nutrients. If you've been doing all these water changes you should not have excess nutrients. I think there is a problem with your source water.

 

[Sea Turtle]

In my experience cyano is a strong indicator of excess nutrients. If you've been doing all these water changes you should not have excess nutrients. I think there is a problem with your source water.

What do I do about that then. My RO/DI unit is saying that there are 0.0 TDS.

 

[mr_X]

hi. what about the new lamps? how long have you had them and did this start to happen after the new bulbs or was it happening all along? if you had old bulbs that have shifted color, and replaced them with new, high PAR lamps without acclimating the corals to them by using something like multiple window screens or something to gradually expose the coral to the new light, you could easily have stressed them, or bleached them.

i do not think that your sand bed is causing this issue.