stn/rtn

[tomtoothdoc]

i recently had some colonies that stn/rtn'd.
one was a wild colony loripes, this was a recent addition ~6-7 weeks or so. in just one day, it started to lose tissue at the base and the inner most part of the branches. fragging and dipping (in coral rx) did not save anything bigger than a inch or two. the frags continued to lose tissue over the past 2 weeks.
then at the end of last week a wild frog skin colony that was in the tank for more than 10 months also suffered the same fate.
the two colonies were at the opposite ends of the tank.

checked for pest of any sort but did not find any. everything were dipped in coral rx prior to addition. no red bugs were ever found anywhere.

200 gal.bb display, 55 gal. dsb fuge with chaeto and dragon's breath macro, 75 gal. sump (270-290 gal. total volume), msx 300 with 2x sicce pumps skimmer, bio pellets in a pm reactor. korallin c3002 cal. reactor. the tank had been running for about 2 yrs.....been upgrading the past 5 yrs.

parameters are stable at the following ranges:
alk 9-api
cal 460-api
mag 1400-salifert
phos. 0.00-hanna meter - in the past 3-4 weeks, it came down from 0.03 to 0.01 to 0.00
nitrate 12-15 -pinpoint nitrate meter
ph 7.95(night)-8.05(day) --i run a calcium reactor and the ph has been in this range for more than 5 months.
salinity 1.025
temp 78.5-79.5
ro/di for top off and salt mixing (esv) -tds (inline and hand held) is zero
35-40 gal wc every two weeks.
non of the routine had changed.

beside the phos., the other thing that is different was the changing of the bulbs. 2x110 vho uvl super actinics were changed a week before the mh's with the same 9 hrs photo period. the 2x400 xm's were changed about a week or two before the stn/rtn. the photo period was cut short from 7 hrs. to 4 hrs. for about a week or two and 5 for the next week or two...will continue to ramp up to 7 hrs in the same increments. followed the same bulbs changing routine i have done in the past with no problem.

no other sign of deterioration anywhere else....new frags added after the loripes' demise are doing fine. so far only about 2-3 frags of the loripes are still alive.

any ideas on what went wrong????? anything i can do beside fragging and dipping if this were to happen to another colony?

 

[flipit13]

Hey Tom
A question did you ever happen to see if there was a spike in temp or if you added new carbon lets say maybe a week or 2 prior or any other changes around the same time frame. I have noticed with sps that sometimes it takes awhile to notice something went wrong and was just over looked.

 

[tomtoothdoc]

Hey Tom
A question did you ever happen to see if there was a spike in temp or if you added new carbon lets say maybe a week or 2 prior or any other changes around the same time frame. I have noticed with sps that sometimes it takes awhile to notice something went wrong and was just over looked.

i run chiller 24/7 year round so my temp is always between 78-80. most of the time it's 78.5-79.5.
i don't use carbon. bio pellets and cal. reactor are the only two things i run.
two different food i fed were oyster feast and reef chili but that was after the rtn's.
i don't recall any change in anything beside the phos. coming down and the new bulbs.

thanks for the input though.

 

[batt600]

You should be using carbon there could be a toxin in the tank that cant be removed be the skimmer . Carbon is a must for my sps tank

 

[Mattl22]

I find wild colonies very unforgiving I tried 2 small ones and they both rtn on me
Have a frag that has done rather well though i've had other corals start to lose tissue on me that weren't wild and they came back but it seems when a wild sps coral starts to go it's a gonner

 

[reefman]

i find wild colonies r hard to adjust to tank life in long term. this can be contribute to how and/or where it was collected.
however, i think your ph is a bit on the low range. i also find rtn from the base and/or inner branches can be due to inadequate water flow.

 

[pauliwalnuts]

i don't recall any change in anything beside the phos.

Did you use the same ammount that you took out, or did you increase.

 

[tomtoothdoc]

You should be using carbon there could be a toxin in the tank that cant be removed be the skimmer . Carbon is a must for my sps tank

i used to run chemipure but took that off more than a year ago. never knew that carbon is a must for sps tank.

 

[tomtoothdoc]

i find wild colonies r hard to adjust to tank life in long term. this can be contribute to how and/or where it was collected.
however, i think your ph is a bit on the low range. i also find rtn from the base and/or inner branches can be due to inadequate water flow.

yes the ph is on the low side....looking into dosing kalk.

i doubt it's inadequate water flow...... i have 4x vortech mp40 wes's, a tunze 6045 and two koralia 4's.....all position in various area. plus 2 split returns from 2 mag 9.5's. and it's not too much flow either, the vortech's flows are each adjusted accordingly for it position. the tunze is smack in the middle from back wall to front glass. the 2 koralias are near the bottom on left and right plane pointing down blowing any cruds from underneath rock structures to the sides where they get sucked up at water changing time(yes it is a base bottom display). and the returns are more toward the surface agitations.

 

[tomtoothdoc]

I find wild colonies very unforgiving I tried 2 small ones and they both rtn on me
Have a frag that has done rather well though i've had other corals start to lose tissue on me that weren't wild and they came back but it seems when a wild sps coral starts to go it's a gonner

very true....wild colonies are crap shoot.. so far i have only a few wild colonies that are over a year old. i haven't lost a colony in over a year though.(yes i have lost some frags here and there).

 

[tomtoothdoc]

Did you use the same ammount that you took out, or did you increase.

i don't recall any change in anything beside the phos. coming down and the new bulbs.

i meant the test value of the phosphate coming down from 0.03 to 0.00 not the amount of phosban ......if i understand you correctly. anyway i used bsr gfo when i was running the reactor but had taken that off line after the bio pellets which were more than 10 weeks prior to the rtn......i don't think the events are related.

 

[tomtoothdoc]

thank you all for your suggestions....want to be clear that i'm not getting defensive about what are suggested. i'm just explaining more of the rhyme and reasons.
appreciate any suggestions. obviously i don't know what could be the problem. don't want to make too many changes either. many times things can get worse from trying to do too many things.

 

[JARRETT SHARK]

Tom I think its the Ph because i had the same problem out of now were and my PH is just like yours until i started dosing 4gal kalk everyday(ph 8.2)

 

[tomtoothdoc]

Tom I think its the Ph because i had the same problem out of now were and my PH is just like yours until i started dosing 4gal kalk everyday(ph 8.2)

i will be looking into a consistent way of dosing kalk. your method looks pretty good but i have no room to position a tank like that for a gravity drip.

 

[fishywoo]

Tom are you dosing any Aminos Acids? My experience is that when you strip the Phosphates out to Zero it causes the RTN. Low nutriant tanks are a real balanceing act. If you strip to much out you have to put something in or you are basically starving the corals. I use Zeo Aminos and Coral Vitalizer.

 

[tomtoothdoc]

Tom are you dosing any Aminos Acids? My experience is that when you strip the Phosphates out to Zero it causes the RTN. Low nutriant tanks are a real balanceing act. If you strip to much out you have to put something in or you are basically starving the corals. I use Zeo Aminos and Coral Vitalizer.

that's a good point. i haven't been dosing consistently. i do have amino acids. i was feeding oyster feast, reef chili, marine snow, chromaplex, and cyclopeze....on a rotating basis..but not on a consistent schedule.
with 290 gal. mostly acro, what do you suggest as a starting point?

 

[fishywoo]

Start slowly. I dose two drops of Zeovit Aminos and 2 drops Of Coral Vitalizer when I get up in the morning and when I go to bed at night. I have a 90 gallon tank as you know. If you start to see any sort of brown algae bloom on the glass you are usually dosing to much.

 

[DrHarryLopez]

keep your hands out of the tank
stop buy up all the coral, and leave some for me

 

[Mattl22]

Lol dr Harry u know that's not an option I just had 2 frags rtn on me while away for weekend my problem is my temp is all over the place I need a reef keeper lite and a new heater hopefully for Xmas I just hope it's not to late

What is the lowest temp can be??? Mine went down to 73 and is running between 73 and 76

 

[tomtoothdoc]

Start slowly. I dose two drops of Zeovit Aminos and 2 drops Of Coral Vitalizer when I get up in the morning and when I go to bed at night. I have a 90 gallon tank as you know. If you start to see any sort of brown algae bloom on the glass you are usually dosing to much.

thanks paul, i will give that a try.