limestone rock

[sompa]

I was wondering if I could use limestone rock from a landscape company? I just upgraded my tank and need a lot more rock. I have about 120lbs of live rock know and just want base rock. Just wondering if this type of rock would work?

 

[danmhippo]

No.

 

[Anonymous]

2X

 

[danmhippo]

You can get cheap dead corals or dead-as-doornail base rock, but not limestone.

 

[Anonymous]

I was wondering if I could use limestone rock from a landscape company? I just upgraded my tank and need a lot more rock. I have about 120lbs of live rock know and just want base rock. Just wondering if this type of rock would work?

Yes. I have many pounds of the stuff in my tank.

The only real problem is that it is much denser than most live rock. So if you could drill holes in it it would help.

We have a limestone quarry here that sells surge rock for $20/ton. I loaded up few hundred pounds in my trunk and they didn't even charge me.

After a few months in the tank you can't tell the difference.

I also have a quarts geode, several lava type rocks, and the lava landscape rocks at the intake and exit of my diy wet dry. Which is a wastebasket full of crushed oyster shells plus the rocks.

And I do use extensive macro algaes which also filter out toxins in the tank.

But with all those no no, dangerous rocks, fish and corals have survived for over three years with several fish now going on 4 years. Plus a giant clam for over a year under NO type lighting.

Nitrates and phosphates are unmeasureable. ph is always high. and I only have to dose calcium/alk once a week or so.

my .02

 

[Joew]

I was wondering if I could use limestone rock from a landscape company? I just upgraded my tank and need a lot more rock. I have about 120lbs of live rock know and just want base rock. Just wondering if this type of rock would work?

Yes. I have many pounds of the stuff in my tank.

The only real problem is that it is much denser than most live rock. So if you could drill holes in it it would help.

We have a limestone quarry here that sells surge rock for $20/ton. I loaded up few hundred pounds in my trunk and they didn't even charge me.

After a few months in the tank you can't tell the difference.

I also have a quarts geode, several lava type rocks, and the lava landscape rocks at the intake and exit of my diy wet dry. Which is a wastebasket full of crushed oyster shells plus the rocks.

And I do use extensive macro algaes which also filter out toxins in the tank.

But with all those no no, dangerous rocks, fish and corals have survived for over three years with several fish now going on 4 years. Plus a giant clam for over a year under NO type lighting.

Nitrates and phosphates are unmeasureable. ph is always high. and I only have to dose calcium/alk once a week or so.

my .02

Ignore Beaslbob.....NO!!!

Joedubya
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[Anonymous]

Beaslbob, do you have a few updated pictures of your tank with this rock?

 

[sompa]

thx for the help

yes beaslbob I would be interested in any pics you may have

 

[wade1]

And I do use extensive macro algaes which also filter out toxins in the tank.

Care to show me a reference for that Beaslbob? I'm always curious about toxin removal...

 

[Anonymous]

thx for the help

yes beaslbob I would be interested in any pics you may have

ok.

an overall shot

left side:

The top rock is a lava as is the left one it is set on. Theover exposed white on that rock is a coral to was only 1" square some months ago. the dark area behind the (c)date is a quartz geode.

and a center shot:

 

[Anonymous]

And I do use extensive macro algaes which also filter out toxins in the tank.

Care to show me a reference for that Beaslbob? I'm always curious about toxin removal...

Well first it is common knowledge with enviromental engineers that plant life of all types bioaccululate any old ion as they suckin the ions of nutrients. But most research is for biosorbtion using dead dried seaweeds.

I did find this reference on the ichem site but have lost the link.

INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMME ON CHEMICAL SAFETY








ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH CRITERIA 200





COPPER

On the ichem website.

in discussing macro algaes and copper:

4.2.2 Aquatic plants

Bioaccumulation factors have been calculated for over 20 species
of marine macroalgae showing maximum values up to 27 000, depending on
the exposure concentration (Bryan & Hummerstone, 1973; Phillips,
1977; Malea et al., 1994; Correa et al., 1996).

Hall et al. (1979) found that a nontolerant strain of the brown
alga Ectocarpus siliculosus exposed to various copper concentrations
(up to 250 µg/litre) displayed higher accumulation values than did a
tolerant strain. At 72 h incubation, the tolerant strain accumulated
mean copper values of 20 mg/kg (wet weight) with no added copper and
234 µg/kg at 250 µg Cu/litre in the medium (Hall, 1981). The same
strain incubated for 14 days displayed accumulation values of 13 mg/kg
with no added copper and 1075 mg/kg at 250 µg Cu/litre in the medium.
Reed & Moffat (1983) exposed the green alga Enteromorpha compressa
to copper concentrations of up to 610 µg/litre (9.6 µmol/litre) for 6
days. Copper accumulation was linearly dependent on the exposure
concentration and the pattern was similar in both the tolerant and
non-tolerant strains. Mean maximum concentrations in the algae were
22.2 mg Cu/kg (0.35 µmol/g) (fresh weight) for the nontolerant strain
and 25.4 mg Cu/kg (0.4 µmol/g) for the tolerant strain. Equilibrium
was not reached within the experimental time period.

This is the only experiments I have seen where the macros were exposed to a known concentration of copper and the bioaccululation was measured over time. Any other references would be appreciated.

I ran some numbers and it turns out that for a 55g tank with 250ppm copper 1/10 pound (wet) of the macro would bioaccumulate the copper in a two week period. but the bioaccumulation was porportional to the copper concentration so copper would have to be added to keep the copper level up. Another article reported the 250ppnm copper is greater then the at faucet copper levels in about 80% of the homes in the US.

Even if the macros we use are only 1/10 as effective, a pound of macrosr would have no problem making a tank safe for any coral in a few months. In fact probably a few weeks at most. And then you harvest the macros to remove the copper and other toxins from the system.

So what I do is add macros right at the initial setup. Then use tap water to aid the macros with nutrients. Use no skimmer and do no water changes again to keep the macros growing until the bioload builds up and continues to provide the needs of the macros. And in return the macros bioaccumulate the very small (compared to the nitrates and phosphates the system generates) amounts of copper, lead and other toxins. And are exported by harvesting those macros.

so basically you have a balanced and stable ecosystem that mainly takes care of itself.

In fact I actually am dosing small amounts of nitrates to help keep the macros growing. I bump up nitrates to 10-20ppm or so and in a week or two they are back down to 0 again. This helps discourages cyano bacteria by keeping the phosphates being consumed by the macros. Cyano can get its nitrogen from nitrogen gas.


my .02

 

[blackcloudmedia]

Not to be mean beaslebob but your tank is kinda......ugly. Whats that grating in the back. Its also very green.

 

[blackcloudmedia]

Not to be mean beaslebob but your tank is kinda......ugly. Whats that grating in the back. Its also very green.

 

[shavo]

hey black cloud it is a mirror, what do you see in it?

 

[DrHank]

Hey blackcloud give the guy a break! Maybe that's what the reefs in PA look like!!!!! :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Not to be mean beaslebob but your tank is kinda......ugly. Whats that grating in the back. Its also very green.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And you are welcome to your opinion as well.

That beautiful grating is egg crate which is sold as light diffusers for dropped ceilings. It partitions the tank into to front display area and refugium back area. The beauty is that nitrates and phosphates dropped to unmeasureable levels, macro and pods thrived, smaller fish can go back there for food and protection, the tangs have some macros to chow down on that poke through the grid. All of that happening for a total cost of $30 including lights.

Actually nitrates are not 0 now. You see I am dosing calcium nitrate to keep them up to 20ppm or so. And help starve cyano of phosphates. But then phosphates are still 0.

Not bad IMHO for a tank that has seen only tap water, no skimmer, no live rock, silica dead play sand, and no water changes in going on 5 years now.

 

[blackcloudmedia]

hey black cloud it is a mirror, what do you see in it?

Huh???

 

[mr_X]

beaslbob...what is that large xenia looking stuff up top? i saw that somewhere else, but not for sale. i would really like to find some.

thx for the help

yes beaslbob I would be interested in any pics you may have

ok.

an overall shot

left side:

The top rock is a lava as is the left one it is set on. Theover exposed white on that rock is a coral to was only 1" square some months ago. the dark area behind the (c)date is a quartz geode.

and a center shot:

 

[wade1]

It appears to be a Clavularia... or clove polyps. But its that large due to lower light input, its reaching to gather as much energy as possible.

B - There are more than a few papers in the scientific literature that have looked into remediation (both freshwater and intertidal) using plants. As it turns out, the vast majority of copper fixation occurs due to the bacteria inhabiting the substrate and living in conjunction with the root systems/soil. Furthermore, your one reference is only looking at copper. Copper should be a non-issue for the vast majority of folks, especially as regards the paper you referenced, considering that the levels they tested would kill corals without a glance. Do you have more references for toxins? I've been unable to find anything beyond copper, arsenic (plants didn't do much), and the soluble nitrogen family compounds.

 

[Anonymous]

It appears to be a Clavularia... or clove polyps.

Correct.

But its that large due to lower light input, its reaching to gather as much energy as possible.

looks normal to me additionally there are new forming and spreading. For instance, there are more on the right side (just a small part almost off the picture). They have covered a plastic ornament the wife added a couple of years ago.

B - There are more than a few papers in the scientific literature that have looked into remediation (both freshwater and intertidal) using plants. As it turns out, the vast majority of copper fixation occurs due to the bacteria inhabiting the substrate and living in conjunction with the root systems/soil. Furthermore, your one reference is only looking at copper. Copper should be a non-issue for the vast majority of folks, especially as regards the paper you referenced, considering that the levels they tested would kill corals without a glance.

Yep. but as in a few weeks the water would be acceptable for corals. addtionally dried seaweed is used to clean up inustrial waste water. again just about any ion. cadmium for instance. And I did get an email from dr Walter Adey where is stated that years ago he worked a project to use live macros for that purpose. But they decided to use dead instead.

Do you have more references for toxins? I've been unable to find anything beyond copper, arsenic (plants didn't do much), and the soluble nitrogen family compounds.

No was hoping someone else would. Of course waste water treatment plants use algae exactly for that purpose. and Susy's planted TOTM uses tap water and She grows sps types in the system. Fast growing trees like poplar suck dioxin out of the soil. So I'm not really worried about macros condition the water for our fish and corals. I was glad to find at least one experiment where the effects of the macros was actually measured. Things like Dr shimek's study did not measure that.