New copperband died

[NYreefNoob]

a SMACK DOWN{towards a comment on your tank } lol paul your system is ran different then most, and i have bought fish or been given fish to try and save myself. i do a 5 minute fresh water dip then a half hour in pro cure before placing in my system and as long as ive used this method ive been pretty successful most qt tanks cause more stress upon the fish then not, i mean how many have a 55g or larger qt tank ?

 

[Paul B]

I agree

 

[cowfish]

. ...then a half hour in pro cure before placing in my system...

Got a link or some more info on the med? Never used it before.

 

[NYreefNoob]

http://www.aquariumguys.com/quickcure1.html

 

[jaa1456]

You said it had fungus on its mouth? Hmmm That's news to me that it is not a disease or parasite. Then what is it? Did you find some new break through medical science and you are now classifying it as something none contagious??? As far as the breakdown info on your tank I got that from you, DIRECTLY FROM YOU. I asked you in a PM almost a year ago and you said it had been broken down several times. As far as treating a fish in QT, That is always a must. NO LFS has fish or a system they sell livestock from that it disease free(unless it is a DT), So even if you buy a healthy fish most likely it has some type of hitchhiker on it. I did this many years ago, added a fish from my QT with no treatment. The fish was in there for 8 weeks, Then my DT that had nothing added for almost 2 years suddenly had ICH.

 

[Paul B]

You said it had fungus on its mouth? Hmmm That's news to me that it is not a disease or parasite. Then what is it?

That fungus on it's snout is very common on fish with long snouts, it comes from an injury usually from being in transport. It is not a disease and it usually clears up on it's own, I have seen it many times even on fish in the sea.
And no it is not contageous.
If I get a cut on my finger and it gets infected, I don't consider myself sick and it is not contageous.

Did you find some new break through medical science and you are now classifying it as something none contagious???

Aparently, I did. And the rest of my fish did not catch that injury or fungus.

As far as the breakdown info on your tank I got that from you, DIRECTLY FROM YOU. I asked you in a PM almost a year ago and you said it had been broken down several times.

You must have been talking to someone else. My tank has been on here and Reef Central since these forums started and I never would say the tank was broken down because it never was. I may have said that being I use a Reverse UG filter I remove some of the rocks every few years to clean and stir up the gravel which is needed with this system and once after it was set up for 25 years I removed all the rock to clean under them, then I returned them to the tank and re aquascaped. I don't consider maintenance, breaking down the tank.
I would have no reason to break down a healthy tank.

As far as treating a fish in QT, That is always a must.

My 16 year old pair of breeding fire clowns and my 10 year old breeding watchman gobies, 10 year old hippo tank and 3 year old breeding bluestripe pipefish and 13 year old hermit crabs 18 year old cusk eel may disagree with you on that.
I have not used a medication on anything in my tank since the 80s, unless it was a sick fish that I was given to see if I could cure.
Oh wait my moorish Idol did get Pop Eye from an eye injury and I removed him and did a small operation to release the preasure behind his eye, I injected an antibiotic and returned him to the tank where he lived a few more years with no problem. Do you feel that is a contageous disease?

NO LFS has fish or a system they sell livestock from that it disease free(unless it is a DT),

This I agree with.
Almost all fish in a store will have some sort of malady and they probably all have paracites just like almost all fish in the sea have paracites.
As I said before, I would rather have my fish resistent to paracites than have to worry about them and I still stand by that.
A few years ago on Reef Central I asked anyone if they wanted to put an ich infected fish in my reef as a test.
No one responded, but that is how sure I am that ich will not infect my tank. There is always ich in there, there has to be as I add fish and other things all the time along with anything I find interesting from the sea. I will see ich if a fish is close to death from something else like jumping out, being bitten badly enough to almost kill it or just old age.
But only on that specimine, it has never infected another fish.
Why then I ask you are my fish so old and spawning? Why are they not full of ich and fungus after I just added this "sick" copperband. I can post some pictures of my fish from many years ago as babies and I can show you those same fish today many years older in a tank full of corals. If they all have ich, how did I cure them in a reef?
If you feel you have to treat all the fish you get, fine, do it, it won't hurt.
My tank is and always has been an experiment. I don't have a tank just to see if I can keep fish alive. That is easy, I have a tank to learn, to experiment. It interests me and if I find a sick fish I either try to buy it or have it donated so I can see if I can cure it. Some things, like an internal injury that causes severe internal bleeding I can not cure but I can cure ich in about 2 days and Pop Eye in a few seconds.
I have treated fish in wholesalers tanks many times as well as LFSs tanks.
I have been doing this a long time, from the week that the first saltwater fish arrived in NY in 1971. I remember when all the "Experts" became experts. I saw all the reef inovations when they were invented and I even have a patent on a fish related item and another one will be finalized in a few weeks. No, I am not the God of fish and I make a lot of mistakes.
If I didn't make mistakes I would never learn anything.
My tank is by far "NOT" the nicest tank here, far from it but it is the way I like it.
In 1971 there were no books on salt water animals, no internet, no copper to treat anything and no one to ask. I learned by SCUBA diving and hanging out with the animals so I could get first hand experiencs and not have to rely on an "expert" who probably never dove and has much less experience than I do.
I don't mean in a tourist resort, I have my own boat and my own equipment.
Have a great day.
Paul:tongue1:

 

[Paul B]

I remember whan this magazine came out, after I already had salt water fish.
I still have a bunch of them.

 

[Boomer]

Paul

From what I see I can see why he did not last. That looks like Uronema marnium and once Uro has set in where there is any sign of redness, hemorrhagic, a fish has about 4 day or so to live and you CAN NOT fix them, it is to late.

 

[Paul B]

Boomer, How you doing? Long time no hear.
The redness also was raised which you can just about see in the picture. It goes all through the fish and is also seen even worse on the other side. That is why I took a picture of the fish as soon as I got it.
I disected it as soon as it died and the area where the lesion is was full of bright red blood, the other organs seemed normal. It also had a strong smell that I assume was from the tissue where there was no circulation and it was rotting.
If it was Uronema marnium it also caused the internal bleeding but it looked more like an injury to me
I aquired the fish cheap as I was fairly sure it would not last very long.
The slight nose fungus was nothing and it did not bother me, I see that all the time on fish like that with long snouts.
I just got to experiment. :tongue1:

I think you remember when my moorish Idol got PopEye. You asked me something about it and I told you that I used a hypodermic nedle to remove the fluid behind the eye and then injected an antibiotic that I got from my cousin a Veteranian. It was cured and lived a few more years.
Almost five years which stinks but is good for a moorish Idol.
Take care.

 

[Boomer]

Last month I did a hypo on a friends clown fish and it is not fine

A small injure with that little reddening will not kill a fish. And yes Uro will cause massive internal bleeding. Uro is a parasite, that once it invades a fish multiplies x potential internally. They "eat" red blood cells. All Tanks have Uro. They are unusably just feeding off of accumulated organics and do not cause any issues. However, in poor environments , especially shipping bags, where it usually starts with high ammonia, they invade the over stressed fish. Same for over stocked wholesalers or retaliers at times.

 

[Paul B]

Same for over stocked wholesalers or retaliers at times.

Well thats where he was.

 

[Boomer]

Is the word "Blue" in the name

 

[THEDLO]

That fungus on it's snout is very common on fish with long snouts, it comes from an injury usually from being in transport. It is not a disease and it usually clears up on it's own, I have seen it many times even on fish in the sea.
And no it is not contageous.
If I get a cut on my finger and it gets infected, I don't consider myself sick and it is not contageous.


Aparently, I did. And the rest of my fish did not catch that injury or fungus.



You must have been talking to someone else. My tank has been on here and Reef Central since these forums started and I never would say the tank was broken down because it never was. I may have said that being I use a Reverse UG filter I remove some of the rocks every few years to clean and stir up the gravel which is needed with this system and once after it was set up for 25 years I removed all the rock to clean under them, then I returned them to the tank and re aquascaped. I don't consider maintenance, breaking down the tank.
I would have no reason to break down a healthy tank.


My 16 year old pair of breeding fire clowns and my 10 year old breeding watchman gobies, 10 year old hippo tank and 3 year old breeding bluestripe pipefish and 13 year old hermit crabs 18 year old cusk eel may disagree with you on that.
I have not used a medication on anything in my tank since the 80s, unless it was a sick fish that I was given to see if I could cure.
Oh wait my moorish Idol did get Pop Eye from an eye injury and I removed him and did a small operation to release the preasure behind his eye, I injected an antibiotic and returned him to the tank where he lived a few more years with no problem. Do you feel that is a contageous disease?



This I agree with.
Almost all fish in a store will have some sort of malady and they probably all have paracites just like almost all fish in the sea have paracites.
As I said before, I would rather have my fish resistent to paracites than have to worry about them and I still stand by that.
A few years ago on Reef Central I asked anyone if they wanted to put an ich infected fish in my reef as a test.
No one responded, but that is how sure I am that ich will not infect my tank. There is always ich in there, there has to be as I add fish and other things all the time along with anything I find interesting from the sea. I will see ich if a fish is close to death from something else like jumping out, being bitten badly enough to almost kill it or just old age.
But only on that specimine, it has never infected another fish.
Why then I ask you are my fish so old and spawning? Why are they not full of ich and fungus after I just added this "sick" copperband. I can post some pictures of my fish from many years ago as babies and I can show you those same fish today many years older in a tank full of corals. If they all have ich, how did I cure them in a reef?
If you feel you have to treat all the fish you get, fine, do it, it won't hurt.
My tank is and always has been an experiment. I don't have a tank just to see if I can keep fish alive. That is easy, I have a tank to learn, to experiment. It interests me and if I find a sick fish I either try to buy it or have it donated so I can see if I can cure it. Some things, like an internal injury that causes severe internal bleeding I can not cure but I can cure ich in about 2 days and Pop Eye in a few seconds.
I have treated fish in wholesalers tanks many times as well as LFSs tanks.
I have been doing this a long time, from the week that the first saltwater fish arrived in NY in 1971. I remember when all the "Experts" became experts. I saw all the reef inovations when they were invented and I even have a patent on a fish related item and another one will be finalized in a few weeks. No, I am not the God of fish and I make a lot of mistakes.
If I didn't make mistakes I would never learn anything.
My tank is by far "NOT" the nicest tank here, far from it but it is the way I like it.
In 1971 there were no books on salt water animals, no internet, no copper to treat anything and no one to ask. I learned by SCUBA diving and hanging out with the animals so I could get first hand experiencs and not have to rely on an "expert" who probably never dove and has much less experience than I do.
I don't mean in a tourist resort, I have my own boat and my own equipment.
Have a great day.
Paul:tongue1:

i love ur style paul! yea i agree a healthy fish in a good environment will be immune to most things.

 

[marrone]

As far as treating a fish in QT, That is always a must. NO LFS has fish or a system they sell livestock from that it disease free(unless it is a DT), So even if you buy a healthy fish most likely it has some type of hitchhiker on it. I did this many years ago, added a fish from my QT with no treatment. The fish was in there for 8 weeks, Then my DT that had nothing added for almost 2 years suddenly had ICH.

You had a fish in QT for 8 weeks and you didn't notice any signs of ich, and how long have you been in the hobby?

 

[Paul B]

yea i agree a healthy fish in a good environment will be immune to most things.

Chelmon rostratus-

Chelmon rostratus-Copperband
Copperband Butterfly fish are basically used to controller Aiptasia anemones in a reef tank. It can be hit or miss, as some Copperbands will eat Aiptasia anemones and others not even touch them. They can be a tough fish to keep, as a lot of times they will not eat any food and just waste away. The Australian ones seem to do better, but still a lot more die than make it. People try feeding them mussels and clams on the shells but even then it can be hit or miss. I guess the real question is, is it worth trying to keep this fish just to control Aiptasia anemones or using some other means to control them.

Zanclus Canescens-

Zanclus Canescens-Moorish Idol
A very tough fish to keep and should only be kept by an expert hobbyist and even then it's probably best if left in the ocean. Most come in very thin and even if they're eating don't make it.

If you looking to get one make sure the body looks fat and around the face and mouth looks in good shape, as wounds by the mouth may cause it not to be able to eat. They need to be place in large tanks with very non-aggressive fish otherwise they can be bullied very easily. Best left in the ocean.

Yes most things, not all but most. Years ago i didn't think fish could be immune to ich but I have to believe they can. Why do not all of my fish die of ich? Why don't any of them? I can only come up with health. And fish that are breeding are the healthiest that they can be. If they are not breeding, or at least making breeding jestures, they are not healthy. All healthy fish breed, if they are the type of fish that can spawn in a tank.
Fish spawn all the time continousely through out their lives. Spawning puts a heavy burden on fish, they not only have to have enough energy to live but loads of extra energy and fat to produce eggs which can take up a quarter or more of a fish.
Fish in that condition have vastly improved immune systems.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Yes most things, not all but most. Years ago i didn't think fish could be immune to ich but I have to believe they can. Why do not all of my fish die of ich? Why don't any of them? I can only come up with health. And fish that are breeding are the healthiest that they can be. If they are not breeding, or at least making breeding jestures, they are not healthy. All healthy fish breed, if they are the type of fish that can spawn in a tank.
Fish spawn all the time continousely through out their lives. Spawning puts a heavy burden on fish, they not only have to have enough energy to live but loads of extra energy and fat to produce eggs which can take up a quarter or more of a fish.
Fish in that condition have vastly improved immune systems.

Even though not everyone agrees to this, I also use the "consistent" fish spawning as an indictator of the healthiness of the fish and the tank for that particular type of animals. Note: I stress the point of consistent not just one of two shots.

 

[dj ze]

i agree with paul fish can become imune to decease i introduced a fish to my system a while back that brought in ich but 3/4 of my fish were never infected and on top of it i have a pair of banggai cardinals that were breeding and never stoped breeding the fish that got ich just fought it out naturaly.a healthy system can fight out most deceases on its own

 

[Paul B]

Even though not everyone agrees to this, I also use the "consistent" fish spawning as an indictator of the healthiness of the fish and the tank for that particular type of animals. Note: I stress the point of consistent not just one of two shots.

That is true Wingo. I should have said "Consistant" spawning.

 

[albano]

Even though not everyone agrees to this, I also use the "consistent" fish spawning as an indicator of the healthiness of the fish ... Note: I stress the point of consistent not just one or two shots.

:scratchch Not only do I agree with this, I also use this "consistent" 'spawning' theory as an indicator of a healthy relationship/marriage! Note: I stress the point of consistent not just one or two shots (a night) !



.

 

[Paul B]

I also use this "consistent" 'spawning' theory as an indicator of a healthy relationship/marriage! Note: I stress the point of consistent not just one or two shots (a night) !

I do too and I have been married for 37 years.