How do you know your tank is AEFW free?

[Kedd]

What method do you use to make 100% sure you don't get AEFW.
A QT tank is a must, but only a start.

I want to hear other input before I re-start my SPS tank.

I don't have a plan yet, but I can say my tank has no SPS and no bugs at this point, and I want to keep it that way.

I know there are some kick ass tanks out there and on this site, but I have now seen two tank that I consider the best of the best that have them.
These people were sure there was no problem.( BTW so was I).

I may be wrong and hope I am , but I think 70-90% of SPS tanks out there now that trade frags have them and don't know it.

I feel the bug is getting stronger and eggs are hatching faster.

Please shoot me down and make me feel better. LOL

Kedd

 

[jhale]

my tank had aefw, they are gone.
I've periodically dipped colonies to spot check, I've not seen any signs of them yet. It's been about 8 months. I dip all new coral in the tropic marin product. I'd recommend a QT tank also.
I think now that people are aware of them it's up to each individual to protect themselves.

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

If you have no Acro's you should have no AEFW's right?

 

[jhale]

that's right chief.

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

I Iz Smart! :lol2: No AEFW's here :biggrin:

 

[Chongpark27]

Are there any natural predators that would eat these worms?

 

[reefman]

supposingly radiant wrasse

 

[loismustdie]

Kedd, I know guys who had them, claim they got rid of them only for them to come back. I know of one case where it was 3 years later from someone who said they didn't add anything to their tank over those 3 years. ( I do feel there may be some exaggerations to this story)
I had them. I threw away everything they were on. Lucky for me, Rich was in the middle of his fight with them when he noticed a brand new frag of mine from Dr Mac had all the symptoms. I threw it out. I kept a piece of the tip because I wanted the coral. 6 months later, Rich found AEFW on that coral as well. My corals were then introduced to the dumpster.
I've read all the threads on RC. They call it "responsible" reef keeping to actually save coral and treat them for AEFW. Stupidest bullshit I've ever seen. I will not sacrifice my whole tank for a coral. If it shows signs of AEFW, in the trash it goes. These guys pass their corals along to others claiming they are pest free. Odds are they are not. Very responsible reef keeping. Pass your pests to others. Doesn't get more irresponsible than that. TMPC cannot kill eggs. Eggs are frequently found on rock. People who treat with TMPC (TMPC is a dip, not a treatment) tend to have brown acros which aren't worth keeping anyway.
2 of my favorite tanks are "living" with AEFW. They don't necessarily have to destroy a reef. They actually seem to like certain pieces more than others, so you may have several, if not most or the acros that are not infected. These guys are just trying to control them. My tank was crappy at the time, so I didn't mind throwing everything away.
Now, I do a dip in TMPC and QT. My dips are very short since IME, TMPC can ruin a coral. While they are in QT, if I were to find any indications of AEFW, back to the supplier they go. I will not treat.
That's how you know.

 

[Dace]

quick ? is there anyway i can get aefw from the hermit crabs. is there anyway they might have some eggs or even have a chance of them being on the shell

 

[prattreef]

I believe Chris might be referring to my system as one of the ones that is "living with them" and that is correct. My main tank does have AEFW and I have decided to try to control them as opposed to eradicate them.

I agree that most of the SPS dominated tanks out there harbor some level of these worms and there is a tipping point that varies from species to species and perhaps colony to colony, where the coral and worms can co-exist with the coral host and you would never know it at all. If the population gets too large then the host suffers and begins to show a visual decline.

What I have learned is that while fish seem to ignore the flatworms on the corals--- presumably even they can't seem to see them---almost all species in my tank will gobble them up like candy if they are water born. I have also found that a few targeted blasts from a turkey baster will dislodge the worms and they are consumed instantly. My fish have even learned to follow the baster around because they know it means a tasty snack.

I have been doing this for a few months now and while I clearly have NOT eradicated the problem-- I find a few flatworms each time I run through the tank ( about twice a week)--the numbers are far smaller than when I began and all my colonies continue to exhibit good growth and coloration.

All this leads me to believe that there must be a natural predator on these worms since clearly they don't secrete distasteful toxins or the like. I suspect Acro crabs may be our best friends in this regard and have postulated ( no proof, just a theory) that because so many of our systems are built from frags (no acro crabs) and that we treat most wild colonies with Interceptor for Red Bugs ( again no crabs) that the flatworm problem that has always been with us is greatly exaggerated. Certainly the time-line of these two reef plagues supports this notion.

So, this is how I choose to handle the problem and I'm very upfront with anyone who wants frags from this system so they know beforehand what they are getting into. So far it is working for me. Is it what others should do? Well, that depends a lot on their specific situation.

Randy

 

[oceanrealm]

aefw

Randy , Im in the midst of setting up a new tank I had also thrown out all my acros. My question is what kind of fish do you have that eat the AEFW?

 

[prattreef]

Pretty much all of them. Tangs, wrasses, damsels, anthias, flame hawk. I can't think of any that don't.... but none seem to pick them off the colonies by themselves.

 

[oceanrealm]

interesting

Pretty much all of them. Tangs, wrasses, damsels, anthias, flame hawk. I can't think of any that don't.... but none seem to pick them off the colonies by themselves.

wow thats great that the aefw seem to be diminishing.

 

[lunner]

Arggg these AEFW, I had nightmare because of them...
I don't have AEFW, just red bugs and now they are gone.

I do agree with Randy.
Also if you can't kill their eggs with TMPCC. Then there isn't any real safety net for us. But I guess dipping them with TMPCC is better then doing nothing...

If these AEFW are parasites that specialized exclusively on Acro, then I guess an Acro free tank would be AEFW free after a few months. But what if a few mutant AEFW change its food source while in an Acro free tank under survival mode and switched back to its favorite food Acro a few months down the road? I mean mutation happen all the time in nature...

 

[loismustdie]

For everything in our tank, there is a predator or pest for them. Zoas have sundial snails, spiders, pox, etc. Montis have monti eating nudis (I had them too). I'm not an LPS guy, but there is probably something that can get them too.
Dave, I would condiser hermit crabs and shells safe.
We're not trying to start up the hype and panic here. Randy provided some great info. I agree with him too that living with them isn't bad. As I said in my other post, having AEFW doesn't mean total tank destruction. At the time mine were found, the opinion was that all the corals were going to die from AEFW. Knowing what I know now, I would consider what I did to be an overreaction, but to be honest, I still stick with my procedure of dipping and sending back anything showing symptoms. I'm not treating. It's a waste of time for what will become a brown acro probably housing some eggs.
The other person I know living with AEFW has a tank I can only dream of having.
I'm just answering Kedd's question of how I make sure not to reintroduce AEFW to my tank again. Not trying to start the scare back up. Excellent info Randy, I was wondering how you were doing. A friend of mine told me the same thing with the turkey baster. All the fish eat the worms once they are blown off of the corals.

 

[Kedd]

I didn't want to start a scare, and I think they have been in our tanks for years.
I know at this point or I think I'm starting from scrach, I don't and haven't had any SPS in the tank for about 2 months.
I don't even plan to start SPS in the tank until the fall, only because of how busy I am at work.

Chris, I too think saving the coral is just a waste of time, JMO, at the point you can see the damage it is usally too late.

Randy what you are doing makes good sense, and if I hadn't taken my tank down, or if I get them again that is what I will be doing.

Daceman I wouldn't worry about the hermits, I think by this time all eggs in my tank have hatched and starved about a month ago.
I have also dipped other monti's and some LPS just to see, and have found nothing.

Kedd

 

[loismustdie]

I believe Chris might be referring to my system as one of the ones that is "living with them" and that is correct.

Randy

check Randy out... assuming that his tank is on my favorites list. This is obviously his modesty speaking:tongue1:.
Just messing with you Randy, you know I love that tank. And, it is one that I was referring to.
Also, if it does happen again, I'll be following Randy's technique. I'm convinced they are not as devastating as they were made out to be. I still don't want them and do whatever I can to keep them out.
I'm curious about the acro crabs and their benefits as well. I only buy colonies now and most have been coming in with at least one acro crab. My last 3 acro purchases were from Ronen, Atlantis and AF. All showed clean after a dip and almost all have the little white acro crabs.

 

[jhale]

My thoughts and observations of the worms are this, if the coral shows signs of worm damage it's too late to save it, I suggest throwing out the coral as Chris has stated. If you find a coral has just a few worms on it imo it's worth saving. with dipping you can get ahead of the life cycle of the worms and the coral can recover from the dips. I have one colony I was able to save this way. It got dipped three times to kill the worms, and twice after to make sure they were gone. it has been slowly recovering it's color. what people have learned so far is the incubation period for the worms is from 3-12 days, and they will live up to five days with no acro's to eat. Now perhaps there are many species of aefw's and this applies to only a few that have been tested/observed so far, so take that info with a grain of salt. I'm confident that with dipping you can keep worms out of your tank. My thinking is that if no worms are found on the coral then there will be no worm eggs. I say this because of what I observed. Once the worms land on a coral they will not leave it till it's completely dead. I do not think only one worm would land on a coral, lay eggs, then leave. once they get on the coral I believe they stay till the food source is used up. As Randys experience demonstrates it's extremely risky for the worms to travel. they have no defense's and are helpless if caught in the open. for me this helps explain how they have developed near perfect camouflaging abilities. they did not do this to hide from humans, it's to hide from predators and not get eaten. So once a worm makes it too a safe acro I think they dig in and hold on for life. This is why I say no worms, no eggs.
Still it's best to QT if you are not sure.
I'm confident I have banished the worms from my tank. I went a step farther than Kedd in taking down my whole tank and starting from scratch with new rock and a sterile tank. I did this for some other reasons as well, but it did take care of the worm problem.

 

[meschaefer]

Do we know how long it takes the eggs to hatch?.. and how long they can go without food (i.e. an acro free tank)?

 

[meschaefer]

So once a worm makes it too a safe acro I think they dig in and hold on for life. This is why I say no worms, no eggs.

While I think that this may hold true for full colonies, my concern would be getting a frag from an infected colony. Is it possible to get a peice that was fragged in such a way that you get the eggs, but not worms.