heat takes its toll

[daisy]

Well, two days ago, my tank made its way up to about 84, and the only animal who looked unhappy was my redlip blenny. She got very pale and was hanging out in the front corner of the tank - totally unlike her. I got the tank cooler pretty fast - about a half degree an hour for about four hours, and then another three degrees during the next 8 or 9 hours. The tank has been at about 78 since then (got the AC working)...

the blenny perked up for the last day, and was seen at 1:30 this morning acting "normal" but still looking pretty pale. This morning at 6 a.m. she was still swimming around... but at 9:45, I found her belly-up in the front corner of the tank. :sad2:

I'm worried about my RG, who for a little while also was acting a little strangely when the tank was hot.... will keep you posted.

 

[crox99]

Tahl,

I don't think it was the temperature. 84 isn't too bad. Last year I went away for a whole week and when I got home the tank was at 88.9. I don't know for how long the tank was at that temperature or if it went even higher than that. Nothing died but fish and corals looked a bit stressed.

 

[KathyC]

Sorry to hear about your blenny!
My tank has gotten to 84 a number of times this year and I know a few reefers whose tanks are running near or at 84...while it's not the best temp for the tank, it shouldn't be killing off the fish. Perhaps your blenny had something else going on and the temp might not have been the issue.

Do you have an efficient skimmer on your set up? Warmer water has less oxygen content than cooler water and we depend so much on our skimmers to do this for us. Perhaps add a small airpump to help oxygenate the water?
My RG is taking the temps well, hopefully yours will be just fine!

 

[daisy]

Hmmm... so if it wasn't the heat, then... I'm glad i froze him instead of flushing him... just in case.

i've got a remora HOB skimmer on a 55. I underfeed, have four pumps on a redsea wavemaster in the tank - oxygenation should not be the issue. plenty of water moving at the top as well - lots of O2 exchange.

my tank has never gotten this warm before.

this fish was about 2 years old, was totally left alone by all the other animals, and until the temp went up, was totally fine - bright (as brightly-colored as redlip blennies can be...) and very very perky.

I will test the water today (though my test kit is of dubious quality), but i am inclined to think the heat at least pushed him over the edge... there was plenty of grazing material for him, and he grazed endlessly...

is it possible that he was stung by one of the larger aptasia?

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

:sad2: Sorry Tahl.

 

[crox99]

BTW I am sorry about your loss. Why did you freeze him?

 

[daisy]

just in case it seems that i should do an autopsy

 

[masterswimmer]

I have to agree with Kathy on all points. My tank has reached 84 many times, with no ill effect. I normally keep it at 77-78, so 84 is a substantial increase.

The chemistry of warm water are such that it can't absorb as much O2 as cooler water.....even though you've got good oxygen exchange at the surface and enough powerheads.

Definitely check your parameters. A series of quality test kits would certainly be ideal. However, you can't be choosy at the moment.

Sorry to hear about your RLB. I'm sure it wasn't due to anything you did. These things do happen.

swimmer

Oh, and an autopsy? Dr. Tahl, calling Dr. Tahl

 

[fritz]

I agree 84 isn't bad, not good but not bad. My halides aren't set to go into "panic mode" until the temp hits 85 degrees. They only shut off if the temp goes above 85. Last summer my tank ran 82-84 with no ill effects whatsoever. This summer it's running 80-83.

The only downside of not having a chiller is that I know it's going to get hot during the day so I don't let it cool down at night. If I let it be, the night temp would drop to 78 or even 76 with the AC on. I feel that 76-84 is FAR to great a temp swing so believe it or not I run my heater in the summer! I feel it's better for the temp to be 80-83 than 76-83.

My temp hit 87.5 a day or two ago when I turned my halides on manually to show my sister. I forgot that they were on manual so when the temp went above 85, the automatic "Panic mode" didn't kick in. I only noticed the tamp when shutting them to go to bed at midnight! All the fish are fine, I did get some STN on a millie colony and STN on another colony that had just stopped STNing.

 

[daisy]

Okay, so i'm in Dr. Tahl mode - let's review the situation...

everything fine fine fine (did tests about a week ago with same results as always) until the temp goes in less than 24 hours from 78 to 84... I'm thinking the time of the fluctuation was probably more like 6 hours from 78 to 84 - keeping in mind that it's only 55 gallons, so changes can happen pretty fast...

now, the only one to suffer is the blenny... strange, but maybe not - maybe he's the most fragile fish in my system? Gotta check that out. He was certainly the youngest (at a year and a half...) but that means nothing, most likely...

He loses all color, gets totally calm (not his style) and is dead in two days with no visible signs of illness whatsoever. I am ruling out parasitic attack right now. When I took him out, his skin was in tact, eyes were pretty clear (he must have been dead for only a very short time...) fins were in tact... there was no deterioriation whatsoever on external inspection. (I ~did~ check to make sure he was dead)

Now, of all the fish in my system, he was the most active, so it is quite possible that his O2 requirement was greater than that of all the other animals in the tank. And his behavior is congruous with lack of O2 - lethargy.

what about the dull color? A possible symptom of lack of O2? It is possible. I know that when we lack O2, we become pale - it is reasonable that the same should happen in a fish. If this is the case, then on post-mortem inspection, i would have been able to tell by the color of his gills whether or not he was lack oxygen, except that when he died, the temperature in the tank had already come down, the lack oxygen would have been relieved, and he would have had nice looking gills -

unless he was suffering ischemic reperfusion damage, which is, I think, also possible... let's say he was lack oxygen for a time, and then he was exposed to oxygen. oxygen is actually damaging at high levels to tissue, and it is possible (and here i hope there is someone who can attest to this or tell me that I'm remembering things wrong - it's been a while since i was a biochemist...) that what killed him was not the lack oxygen, but the return to a normal oxygen level.... In which case, maybe his gill tissue would show O2 damage...

the thing is that I have never autopsied a fish before (I've done horses, but they don't have gills...), and I don't know what to look for....

so i do think that the sudden rise (and subsequent drop) in temp is what did him in, but it was not the heat that killed him, but probably the change in O2 levels.

consensus?

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

I could have been a multitude of things but I think the rise and fall of the temp causing the o2 levels to drop, all of this may have caused the AB stress that may have been the end cause. I know that was one big run on sentence but it made sense when I typed it :lol2:

 

[daisy]

bad day

I need to change the titleof this thread to a bad day in Tahl's tank...

Started off the day with the loss of my red lip blenny. Ended the day with the loss of my royal gramma, Comet. This fish has been in my system for about four years.


I have to say, taking comet out of the water - that was one HEAVY fish. He was HUGE.

RIP, big guy. The girls are REALLY going to miss you.

I haven't figured out how to tell them yet. They're four and six. i'm so sad.

 

[ShaunW]

Sorry for you loss Tahl.

The heat hurt my tank this weekend also. My chiller pump failed and my tank when up to the high 80s, maybe even the 90s for a day before I caught it (was away for the weekend). SUCKS, since I am experiencing even more losses, :sigh: . When it rains it pours.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Besides heat, can we also suspect other causes due to changing weather?

We feel uncomfortable when weather changes, sometimes we even have fever due to, let say, alergy or viruses and so forth. In some cases death could occur. We hardly think about virus that brought along by chnaging weathers in reefing. In keeping birds and dogs, we know flu will kill quickly(especially in non vacinated pet shops). Fish has flu too I guess. So I say changing weather will hurt fish too.

 

[daisy]

SO sorry for your losses! I saw the corals you lost in your thread.

My heart is just broken today. I know it will mend, as will the tank... but it is so hard when this happens.

 

[daisy]

Wingo - when our body temp is disturbed, we are immunologically weakened and we become vulnerable to attack by anything.

I think the blenny died as a direct result of the lack of oxygen.

i think the royal gramma died of something a little different, actually - b/c he did not have the same symptoms as the blenny.

and i am seeing tiny white spots on the Yellow Tang's pectoral fins - I'm giving extra garlic in her food and praying that she'll recover, but generally speaking, the whole system is upset, and it will take some time for everything to work its way out.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed at this point.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Oh one observation for these couple days. The skimmers in my tanks have have been very strange lately. They will spill the collection in a day even at the lowest setting. Nothing seeable ill effects but I guess it has to do with the weather too.

 

[daisy]

Hmmmmm.... would have to think about this one. no idea what that's about.

 

[jhale]

sorry Tahl
at times the hobby is not fun

 

[KathyC]

Sorry to hear of the loss of the RG.

I can hook you up with a friend of mine who knows how to necropsy fish and can possibly tell you about the obvious things to look for. I'll PM you the info.
I continue to believe it was more that the rise in temp that caused your losses. Temp swings can easily lead to ich and you will commonly find the first indications of it in the gills, though you didn't mention the fish breathing heavily, and you lowered the temp fairly slowly. I would not expect to see a loss this quickly after a temp swing..simply not enough time for ich to develop/multiply to the point of killing the fish within 2 days.

Did I read somewhere you moved in the last couple of weeks? Was the tank moved?