The Pump Thread...
- Thread starter SlamaJama
- Start date
No exp. with sedra pumps, I've heard from some, that they have been very reliable. Check out some searches on `em....
ha! I couldn't agree more. I'm very much a pic whore myself! Proudly, no less. Here is my custom.... http://isleaquatica.com/gallery/v/tanks/custom/
ha! I couldn't agree more. I'm very much a pic whore myself! Proudly, no less. Here is my custom.... http://isleaquatica.com/gallery/v/tanks/custom/
- Location
- Glendale, New York
Yes that is what I was talking about. You have more then enough in that overflow box you will be fine with the dart. You have 4 outs but two ins. What size are they. That is what I really need to know. They look like 1" if so then your good to go.eoffrey said:
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- Location
- Glendale, New York
Ok 1.5 nice. Now with that siad I looked at your pics of your tank I have a couple of thing I would like to say to help you out.eoffrey said:
Get ride of all 3/4 fitting on your pump you are restricting all that flow that you can use in your tank with np. Just drill the 2" hole in the sump that you have and PVC pipe right to the pump. Im a mod on Reeflounge and this is a post that I did for our members I think it will help you out.
http://www.reeflounge.com/showthread.php?t=21535There are a lot of people out there that have a hard time starting up there plumbing jobs on there tanks, and also do not understand head loss with there pump and how they can prevent it to get the most flow out of there pumps. I have been looking on the web to find out about how people have set up there plumbing and there is just not that much out there, so I decided to post what I did on my tank and give a little information. The planning of my tank was done to try and keep down as much head loss as possible and make it as net as possible. No matter what, you are going to have some head loss but you can do things to make it less.
I have a couple of things that you should think about before you start your plumbing job.
1. Try and use as little 90d elbows as possible, if you can get away with using 45s then do so. 45d elbows will make water move smoothly through, also if you can avoid using Ts and using wye fitting instead that would also help.
2. Try and go up .25 in size of PVC. This will help the pump flow water faster with less restrictions.
3. True Union Ball Valves are good to use. They take up less space then using a valve and a union separate. Going up a size will help in head loss as well.
4. Flexible PVC Tubing is very good to use when ever you can. This stuff is very easy to bend and can eliminate almost any elbows that you mite need to use.. It also helps with vibration from your pump. The rubber on the tubing absorbs the vibration so your pump wont make extra noise. A lot of times its not the pump making the sound it is your plumbing.
5. Keep in mind that one day you mite have to take down your plumbing or clean it out for any build up that mite happen. So try and use Unions in areas that will make it easier for you to take your Plumbing apart so you don't have to break out your saw and start to cut it away. I learned the hard way. I know this cuts into your head loss so don't go crazy.
You should try and make your pluming job as clean as possible as well. You don't want pipes all over the place and in the way of your stuff. You should try and make some kind of Manifold if your going to have your pump work multiple things. EX: two overflow, skimmer, chiller, UV and so on. The manifold I made has an extra valve just in case I wanted to add something else to my tank, like a UV. My Dart pump runs my Chiller, skimmer and two overflows. The main pipe on my manifold is 1.5" then breaks down to 1" or 3/4" when needed. This was done to try and use the larger PVC which was 1.5" as far as I can.
Manifold
Since I didn't have enough room for the pump to go right inline with my sump I had to put it right next to it. I used an easy 90 so the water would not have any sharp turns. I believe these 90s are only made for 1.25" PVC or higher.
I used the Flexible PVC Tubing to connect my pump to the manifold right after my true union valve this was done to cut down on any vibration the pump mite have. For this to work you should use at least 6" of the flex PVC so it absorbs most or all the vibrations from your pump.
The most important thing is take your time in planning this out. Trust me you will be happier if you do. You don't want to go back and fix something later on or start to chang things around. To help out with head loss RC has a calculator for it. You can see how much you will be losing in flow and mite make you rethink what you are going to do. Here is the link. http://reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php
This is a pic of my whole set up.
I hope this helps a little bit when you are planing your plumbing for your tanks. If I think of anything else I will post it, I know I forgot something. If anyone has anything to add that would be great you never can know to much in this hobby.
PV
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- Location
- NY
PVs, very nicely done. If I can add only one thing , it would be that the corrugated flex pvc is very restrictive. If it were smoother (unfortunately not totally smooth) it would be less restrictive and an ideal DIY description. All those ribs cause a lot of turbulence within the pipe causing head loss.
- Location
- Glendale, New York
masterswimmer said:
[FONT=Arial,sans-serif]The Ribs in the PVC piping is very slight and still very smooth in side the pipe. I didn't really see that much of a loss. See Im using it to get ride of 90d angles which is really restrictive. It is a lot better then using Pool Tubing as I call it.
I also have not read anything about it causing any type of head loss. Now, you have me thinking so I have to look into it more. Do you have any info on the matter?
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- Location
- NY
The following data can be found here.
Effect of the inner roughness of the pipe
The inner roughness of the pipe can create eddy currents. This increases the friction between the pipe wall and the fluid. The relative roughness of the inside of the pipe is used in determining the friction factor to be used.
Relative roughness = Inside pipe roughness / Inside pipe diameter
The average inner roughness of commercial pipes:
Steel tube ........0.0460 mm
Copper tubing.... 0.0015 mm
Glass tubing .......0.0001 mm
Polythene ..........0.0010 mm
Flexible P.V.C. ...0.2000 mm
Rigid P.V.C. .........0.0050 mm
Cast iron tube .....0.2600 mm
Concrete tube .....2.0000 mm
What I see from the above:
The inner roughness of the flexible pvc is considerably higher than all tubing material except cast iron and concrete.
The flex pvc is 2/10th's mm inner roughness compared to
the rigid pvc at 5/1000th's mm inner roughness, 40 times rougher (.005 x 40=.2)
Effect of the inner roughness of the pipe
The inner roughness of the pipe can create eddy currents. This increases the friction between the pipe wall and the fluid. The relative roughness of the inside of the pipe is used in determining the friction factor to be used.
Relative roughness = Inside pipe roughness / Inside pipe diameter
The average inner roughness of commercial pipes:
Steel tube ........0.0460 mm
Copper tubing.... 0.0015 mm
Glass tubing .......0.0001 mm
Polythene ..........0.0010 mm
Flexible P.V.C. ...0.2000 mm
Rigid P.V.C. .........0.0050 mm
Cast iron tube .....0.2600 mm
Concrete tube .....2.0000 mm
What I see from the above:
The inner roughness of the flexible pvc is considerably higher than all tubing material except cast iron and concrete.
The flex pvc is 2/10th's mm inner roughness compared to
the rigid pvc at 5/1000th's mm inner roughness, 40 times rougher (.005 x 40=.2)
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90deg. elbows. Though they are needed for certain applications, you want to try to limit the amount in which you employ them and work around them making different, less abrupt turns and the likes.
Pvs, thanks for your insight, much appreciated again. My new custom tank is actually a custom upgrade for my seahorses. Whilst they are stronger than most would think, I do prefer to have flow a bit higher than norm for them. So `bout your post...
That is a sound idea, good looking out. What I will do, is wet test the plumbing as is.....and if I am not happy with the flow I can always upgrade in size with regard to the size bulkhead that you spoke of in my sump. I think that's a good idea, making that a larger bulkhead, so I'm glad you brought those cards to the table.
As for the 3/4" tubing on the returns coming from the pump, they cannot be changed because I cannot redo the bulheads on the back of the tank. No way I can get THAT DIY
I wound up not going with the pliable PVC, just because I wanted to take of everything locally. I have a type of spa flex on my drains and though it looks corrugated on the outside, the inside of it, is for the most part smooth. Not 100% smooth, but you would certainly, just by looking at the spaflex, NEVER suspect that it's as smooth as it is on the inside, when seeing what the outside looks/feels like.
The thing about plumbing is that there a plethora of ways to get the deed done and tinkering and toying around with it until it suits you just right is key. At this point in the game, I wish I hired Pvs to plumb my tank!!!!!! I hated every second of it! Pvs, maybe you'll be for hire when my next tank rolls in?!!!
Pvs, love seeing that dart hooked up. It's awsome and thank you for that thread, it's great reading it. As I said, this is my first larger tank that I plumbed myself, so I'm a bit nervous and anxious to have it actually work!
- Location
- Glendale, New York
masterswimmer said:
Good to know thank you.
- Location
- NY
PVsPlayhouse said:
You're welcome. We're all a team here. :grouphug:
With all our expertise and experiences combined, we should be able to build our own Atlantis! :tongue1:
R
scarf_ace1981
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Juan, PR
anyone???
- Location
- Glendale, New York
I just got one I have read that they are a lot better then they use to be. Im going to be using mine to send water up my wall to my attic for my chiller and UV. I have a friend that using it one as well and he said it is all good. My main pump is a Dart and I dont even know it is on. Im about to change it over to the Snapper all I have to do is change the impeller which I just got.
scarf_ace1981
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Juan, PR
so by changing the impeller on a dart you can make it a snapper?
- Location
- Glendale, New York
Yes. From what they told me when they sent it to me. That is what the Snapper is, a Dart with a smaller impeller.
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