- Location
- Westchester NY
all I need to know is that I watched as my fish had less and less white spots... continued the treatment to the end of the parasite cycle and walla the ich is gone. It worked!!! Thats all anyone needs to know.
how to get rid of ich when you cant get the fish out of the tank
- Thread starter mxracer761
- Start date
all I need to know is that I watched as my fish had less and less white spots... continued the treatment to the end of the parasite cycle and walla the ich is gone. It worked!!! Thats all anyone needs to know.
- Location
- The Big City
The problem with your theory is the food source of the parasites is the fish, boosting the fish immune system will not stop the fish from being infected again, thus the parasite will not be reduced. Unless you kill the parasite, or the fish dies and no new source of food is introduced, the parasite will keep going on. This product doesn't kill the parasite nor does it do anything to stop it. Hypo doesn't work like that nor does Copper.
- Location
- The Big City
Did it or was it something else? Then again you said that you still have Ich in your tank.
- Location
- Westchester NY
Incorrect... boosting the fish immune system will stop the fish from being infected. slime coat on the fish is the first line of defense. scales is yet another then its the internal immune system. If you are able to keep the parasite from reinfecting during its life cycle (4-6 weeks for ich) than you have effectively killed the parasite by starving it of its host (food source).
The result = dead parasite and life goes on for the fish as it should be.
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- Location
- The Big City
Actually Ich attacks the fish gills, not to mention the eyes and mouth too. Also when fish get infected they put out slime, but that doesn't stop them from getting reinfected. So the slime coating will not stop the fish from being infected again. This is basically the same thing that people using garlic say, which doesn't work either. As for the internal immune system, well it doesn't kill the Ich either, so boosting it isn't going to do anything in killing the Ich or stop the fish from getting reinfected.
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- Location
- Westchester NY
incorrect again... you are ignoring the parasites life cycle. :dead1:
if you keep the parasite from reinfecting within its life-cycle the parasite will starve and die. thats also how hyposalinity works. read up on it.
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- Location
- The Big City
You really don't know what you're talking about, and you just keep putting out more bad information.
- Location
- Westchester NY
if I don't than they dont either... but heaven forbid if you have no idea???
Ich has three life-stages. We can begin with the feeding stage that has settled under your fishes' outer skin: the trophont (or trophozoite). The trophont is the only feeding stage (its name contains the same Greek troph="feeding" element familiar in "heterotroph" or "trophic level"), yet it has no mouth. Instead it secretes histolytes to break down neighboring host cells, in order to absorb their contents. The histolytes cause the host fishes' epithelium to thicken, so that the host's own immune reaction provides a safe haven for this "adult" or "mature" stage, where it's protected from medication.
Constantly rotating inside its pustule, the trophont swells to 50 times its original size, becoming large enough to appear to the naked eye, grayish-white, round to oval, as big as a grain of salt. In a few days or much longer, depending on temperature, it is ripe. It sheds its cilia, grows a thickened gelatinous outer shell, lets itself be shed into the fishes' mucus, and drops away as a "tomont."
The trophont does not need to become completely mature. A lab study by T.A. Nicholl and M.S. Ewing at Oklahoma State found that most of the embedded trophonts left the host within four hours of the host's death: it's worth noting, in this context, that the corpse of an Ich-infested fish is a major source of infection.
The released non-feeding tomonts swim for 2 to 6 hours before settling on a substrate. (Nicholl and Ewing found that a light substrate was preferred to a dark one.) Some biologists count this brief interval as a fourth life stage (during which it is susceptible to medication, by the way, according to Dr. Peter Burgess, the resident "fish doctor" at Practical Fishkeeping magazine).
Quickly the free-swimming tomont attaches to a substrate and encysts, as the reproducing stage. This life-stage doesn't eat. Its metabolic clock has been ticking since it left its host fish; now it is spending its stored energy to divide and divide again within the short-lived cyst. The tomont's time-span remains temperature-dependent: at common aquarium temperatures it's a matter of hours to days. (In a chilly koi pond in early spring, the cyst may persist longer.) Ultimately hundreds of microscopic mobile tomites burst from the cyst, even as many as 2000. They quick sprout cilia and start actively swimming about in search of a host. The fully developed "swarmers" are now called theronts (Greek ther- denotes a critter).
The tomites'/theronts' metabolism is also temperature-dependent, but they must find a host within a very few days or perish: at 68?F none survived after 55 hours, according to the pioneer expert in fish diseases Wilhelm Schaperclaus. The gelatinous thin-walled cyst can't survive being completely dried out, an incentive to let your nets dry out completely, if there is Ich anywhere among your tanks.
Only the free-swimming life stages are susceptible to medications. Only the actively feeding trophont can persist "dormant" in the aquarium, though it's never free-living but always attached inconspicuously to a host, perhaps on a gill surface.
Ich is all too easily identified with the naked eye at the final full development of the trophont. (In fact Ichthyophthirius multifiliis is the largest known single-celled parasite on fishes.) As a result, many aquarists don't want to believe Ich is attacking their fish till they actually see the white spots. This is an error. Often a spot or two pass unnoticed, since newly-settled trophonts are too small to see anyway, and especially since early infestations are likely to attach to the gills, where they stay invisible as they grow. If you wait until later stages, badly infested small fishes may be too weakened to save. The other common error, once a medication regime is begun, is that it's often ended as soon as no more mature "white spot" trophonts are visible in obvious places on the fish. It's absolutely essential to keep on medicating till the last encysted tomont has released its tomites, and the last tomite has been eliminated by the medication. Remember, it only takes a single tomite successfully settled into the fishes' epithelium to inaugurate a whole new cycle. As the University of Florida put it, once more, "Uncontrollable or recurrent infestation with ciliate protozoans are indicative of husbandry problems."
Ich has three life-stages. We can begin with the feeding stage that has settled under your fishes' outer skin: the trophont (or trophozoite). The trophont is the only feeding stage (its name contains the same Greek troph="feeding" element familiar in "heterotroph" or "trophic level"), yet it has no mouth. Instead it secretes histolytes to break down neighboring host cells, in order to absorb their contents. The histolytes cause the host fishes' epithelium to thicken, so that the host's own immune reaction provides a safe haven for this "adult" or "mature" stage, where it's protected from medication.
Constantly rotating inside its pustule, the trophont swells to 50 times its original size, becoming large enough to appear to the naked eye, grayish-white, round to oval, as big as a grain of salt. In a few days or much longer, depending on temperature, it is ripe. It sheds its cilia, grows a thickened gelatinous outer shell, lets itself be shed into the fishes' mucus, and drops away as a "tomont."
The trophont does not need to become completely mature. A lab study by T.A. Nicholl and M.S. Ewing at Oklahoma State found that most of the embedded trophonts left the host within four hours of the host's death: it's worth noting, in this context, that the corpse of an Ich-infested fish is a major source of infection.
The released non-feeding tomonts swim for 2 to 6 hours before settling on a substrate. (Nicholl and Ewing found that a light substrate was preferred to a dark one.) Some biologists count this brief interval as a fourth life stage (during which it is susceptible to medication, by the way, according to Dr. Peter Burgess, the resident "fish doctor" at Practical Fishkeeping magazine).
Quickly the free-swimming tomont attaches to a substrate and encysts, as the reproducing stage. This life-stage doesn't eat. Its metabolic clock has been ticking since it left its host fish; now it is spending its stored energy to divide and divide again within the short-lived cyst. The tomont's time-span remains temperature-dependent: at common aquarium temperatures it's a matter of hours to days. (In a chilly koi pond in early spring, the cyst may persist longer.) Ultimately hundreds of microscopic mobile tomites burst from the cyst, even as many as 2000. They quick sprout cilia and start actively swimming about in search of a host. The fully developed "swarmers" are now called theronts (Greek ther- denotes a critter).
The tomites'/theronts' metabolism is also temperature-dependent, but they must find a host within a very few days or perish: at 68?F none survived after 55 hours, according to the pioneer expert in fish diseases Wilhelm Schaperclaus. The gelatinous thin-walled cyst can't survive being completely dried out, an incentive to let your nets dry out completely, if there is Ich anywhere among your tanks.
Only the free-swimming life stages are susceptible to medications. Only the actively feeding trophont can persist "dormant" in the aquarium, though it's never free-living but always attached inconspicuously to a host, perhaps on a gill surface.
Ich is all too easily identified with the naked eye at the final full development of the trophont. (In fact Ichthyophthirius multifiliis is the largest known single-celled parasite on fishes.) As a result, many aquarists don't want to believe Ich is attacking their fish till they actually see the white spots. This is an error. Often a spot or two pass unnoticed, since newly-settled trophonts are too small to see anyway, and especially since early infestations are likely to attach to the gills, where they stay invisible as they grow. If you wait until later stages, badly infested small fishes may be too weakened to save. The other common error, once a medication regime is begun, is that it's often ended as soon as no more mature "white spot" trophonts are visible in obvious places on the fish. It's absolutely essential to keep on medicating till the last encysted tomont has released its tomites, and the last tomite has been eliminated by the medication. Remember, it only takes a single tomite successfully settled into the fishes' epithelium to inaugurate a whole new cycle. As the University of Florida put it, once more, "Uncontrollable or recurrent infestation with ciliate protozoans are indicative of husbandry problems."
- Location
- The Big City
Well, you don't. What you posted has nothing to do with what methods you want to use.
- Location
- Westchester NY
well than neither do you. and what I posted has to do with what you are ignoring, which is the ich's life cycle. Of which you have no clue. with that there is no purpose for continueing this discussion. as I said earlier to each his/her own. Hope I've helped. Later!!!
- Location
- The Big City
There really isn't, as you have no clue about what you're talking about, which this thread, and a couple others, show.
- Location
- Westchester NY
I leave with this caveat... pay close attn to the wording
When is hyposalinity most effective on ich?
Hyposalinity is largely ineffective on mature ich parasites that are well protected in the gills surrounded by thick mucus produced by an infected fish, when embedded deep in the tissues of their host, and during the final encrusted cyst stage of life. It is primarily during the free-swimming phase of life when newborn organisms are released from a mature cyst, and before they have the chance to fully attach and develop into mature parasites that they are most vulnerable and can be eliminated with hyposalinity.
good luck! lol
When is hyposalinity most effective on ich?
Hyposalinity is largely ineffective on mature ich parasites that are well protected in the gills surrounded by thick mucus produced by an infected fish, when embedded deep in the tissues of their host, and during the final encrusted cyst stage of life. It is primarily during the free-swimming phase of life when newborn organisms are released from a mature cyst, and before they have the chance to fully attach and develop into mature parasites that they are most vulnerable and can be eliminated with hyposalinity.
good luck! lol
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- Location
- Westchester NY
"Hyposalinity should NEVER be used in a reef system, as it will kill corals and all types of delicate invertebrates. Since most people in all likelihood will not want to disturb these animals, not to mention have to hassle with removing them and set up another tank to put them in, the easiest thing to do for a reef tank is to leave it devoid of all fish for at least 4 weeks and allow the ich to run its life cycle and die off."
wow there is that life-cycle talk again.
wow there is that life-cycle talk again.
mxracer761
Experienced Reefer
- Location
- long island
what exactly is hypo?
yes i do run filter socks
yes he does sleep under a rock next to my cleaner shrimp, though i will try and get him out tonight
- Location
- Westchester NY
Hypo is short for Hyposalinity or Osmotic SHOCK treatment.
If that sounds good to you, than go for it.
basically you lower salinity down from 35ppt to 12-16 ppt so you can kill a parasite only during its free swimming phase. during this phase the parasite will litterally explode due to low salinity.
then you keep the fish in QT tank for 4-6 weeks and raise the salinity back up slowly.
However, its questionable weather advanced ich or other strands of ich are affected by hypo.
one thing is sertain... there is a reason they call it osmotic SHOCK treatment.
I hope your fish makes it. keep us posted.
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- Location
- smithtown, long island
You have to lower your salinity to .09 for it to work correctly... Never lost a fish performing hypo, only saved.. Going back up and raising the salinity is when you have to be very careful..
The socks do help w ich a tad as well
Keep us updated
The socks do help w ich a tad as well
Keep us updated
- Location
- Westchester, N.Y
All I can say what worked for me in the past. I think copper is the best if you can QT the fish and test copper levels. But if you can not remove a fish. I just went though a case of velvet which I lost 4 fish in my SPS tank. One by one I was losing fish. Heavy breathing and white power on scales of fish body.. One Lardi clown fish and Blue chromes had it to but without any treatment they both lived. Where other Lardi clown fish, Potter angel, Hawk fish, blackcap. Died one after the other. The difference of these two both were still eating and I believe fought it off. So how they survived I will never know. I'm no fish doctor but today they are alive because they had a strong immune.
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- Location
- Westchester, N.Y
I'm surprised to hear that stress has nothing to do with Ich. Parasites are always present in water. When a fish immune is low. Do to temp change, ammonia ect. Is when Ich can attack the fish immune causing fish to get Ich. Just because your fish has no sign of Ich doesn't mean Ich isn't present in your tank. Parasites are present in everybody tank just like germs are in our everyday lives. We can't see virus or germs with naked eye. But it's all over. But does that mean we all get sick. No only when our immune is weak we get sick. Same as a fish. If you can't take out the fish and it's a reef tank. Theirs not much you can do. As long he eating and he's only fish in the tank. Make sure water parameters are good. No electric prone by any pumps that might be stressing fish. Adding vitamin C and garlic won't kill the Ich. I never said it will kill it. But trying to to build the fish-immune so he as a chance to fight it off on his own.
- Location
- Westchester, N.Y
Marrone, Answer this... In the ocean fish get Parasites and sick correct. So do they all die or some one has to treat that sick fish so he has a chance to live. Fish immune system and stress plays a big role in the health of fish. The difference of him surviving or not.
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