Harbor Aquatics
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Originally posted by LiquidShaneo:
[QB]Hehe, it's all in who you know...
While watching this "good ol' boy" network is real peachy, it doesn't do much in the way of stocking my tank.
I just find it odd, that someone who claims to be a retailer over the internet, has been publicly promising to deliver an updated(and hence usefull) web page for a month now(original launch was supposed to be 4/15). While not intentional, it does speak volumes about how well they deal with the internet, and how much they want people's business.
I wouldn't be surprised if they lost alot of potential new customers, due to moving at a snail's pace. There is alot of competition out there, some even try to attract and keep new customers.
Maybe they just don't care.
To each his own.
Basil63
Basil63
I see you've been registered for over a year and a half and have contributed 5 posts and most of them are complaints. I have no idea what the supposed delay is, but I have seen lots of businesses put up web sites that contain functional problems and I think I would rather see a company get the problems tested and working rather than meet a specific deadline.
By the way, what software company actually meets their own stated deadlines these days? Certainly not Microsoft. Windows 95 and 98 were both two years late. Apple computer was a couple of years late with Mac OS X. Adobe has been late with Photoshop updates. The only company that I have seen consistently meet deadlines is IBM, and that's only because they cut out the unfinished features to meet their release deadlines.
Small companies can sometimes put out superior products and it doesn't necessarily translate into technical skills in other areas. So they hire computer consultants like me, although some of them aren't always putting out the best service, and the ones that do charge $100-200/hour. (And that doesn't mean that you get their best service either)
What I see Harbor Aquatics trying to do is a bit more difficult than what the bigger suppliers like Flying Fish or Marine Depot are doing, who show you pictures of corals that were sold to someone 4 years ago. I haven't seen any serious updates to their sites in at least that long. Some companies have been nabbed stealing pictures of corals that people here have posted and putting on their commercial web sites. I think your post lacks a bit of insight.
[ May 09, 2002: Message edited by: Super Cow ]</p>
I see you've been registered for over a year and a half and have contributed 5 posts and most of them are complaints. I have no idea what the supposed delay is, but I have seen lots of businesses put up web sites that contain functional problems and I think I would rather see a company get the problems tested and working rather than meet a specific deadline.
By the way, what software company actually meets their own stated deadlines these days? Certainly not Microsoft. Windows 95 and 98 were both two years late. Apple computer was a couple of years late with Mac OS X. Adobe has been late with Photoshop updates. The only company that I have seen consistently meet deadlines is IBM, and that's only because they cut out the unfinished features to meet their release deadlines.
Small companies can sometimes put out superior products and it doesn't necessarily translate into technical skills in other areas. So they hire computer consultants like me, although some of them aren't always putting out the best service, and the ones that do charge $100-200/hour. (And that doesn't mean that you get their best service either)
What I see Harbor Aquatics trying to do is a bit more difficult than what the bigger suppliers like Flying Fish or Marine Depot are doing, who show you pictures of corals that were sold to someone 4 years ago. I haven't seen any serious updates to their sites in at least that long. Some companies have been nabbed stealing pictures of corals that people here have posted and putting on their commercial web sites. I think your post lacks a bit of insight.
[ May 09, 2002: Message edited by: Super Cow ]</p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Basil63:
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Originally posted by LiquidShaneo:
[QB]Hehe, it's all in who you know...
While watching this "good ol' boy" network is real peachy, it doesn't do much in the way of stocking my tank.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Quite simply, there are folks in #reefs who jt has known for a long time, and values their input. Keith, Shane, Rick, and I happen to be some of those people. He solicited our input in an effort to bring you a better page. I have seen portions of the detritivore, live rock, and invertebrate pages, and given my comments on how I think they can be improved. The new site is also running with a different software package, and isn't flat HTML like the old one, so it can't simply be dropped into Dreamweaver and magically upgraded. Personally, I'd be willing to wait a bit longer to see a quality site than one that hasn't been tested before public release.
Hmm, I wasn't going to comment on this because it usually opens a pandoras box for even yet more flamage. However, it is very frustrating sitting here listening to all of this.
Let me give you all some history and hopefully explain where we are trying to go. I am NOT trying to make excuses here to satisfy Basil.
Harbor Aquatics was started six years ago by Gary and Joy Meadows. Gary created the website to be an educational tool first and business generator second. He never cared that others might have had bigger and better "online stores" with fancy smancy bells and whistles and whiz-bang sounds. He always wanted to add a more personal touch, something much needed and missing in this hobby, to the business. Although we sell over the internet, we never have been, and never will be, an "online store" where you place the order and never hear from a real person. You are not buying a computer here, you are buying a living organism!
Sadly, Gary passed away at Ft. Lauderdale MACNA. Joy was left to run the business alone with sporadic help from her son Jeremy. Business naturally slipped a little bit over the course of the year, you try losing your husband and father and still try running the business. In October of this past year, I seized the opportunity to come out and help Joy bring Harbor Aquatics back to where we use to be.
What have we been doing?
1. New website built from scratch including new pictures, all new html, and a new shopping cart. Will feature a WYSIWYG section for SPS and Clams.
2. Because we have always been picky about quality of livestock, we have never really had a fish system except to hold a few specimens from Hawaii. Well, thanks to an increasing net caught industry world wide, we are now able to start offering a larger variety of healthy fish and are building a large fish system from the ground up. In fact, I recently spent a week touring some net caught fishing villages in PI. We have always been a direct importer of most of our livestock and try to visit as many of the actual collection sites as possible. Here is a link to some of the pictures I took: PI Village
3. Replacing ALL pumps and ALL plumbing on our already existing 20,000G of rock and coral holding.
4. Building a new, and larger, dedicated SPS and Clam system along with a seperate propogation system.
All the above plus taking care of daily maintenance duties along with shipping customer orders, answering emails, and dealing with walk-in customers.
I had wanted to time the release of the new website with the stocking of our new fish and SPS/Clam systems. However, because of electrical contractor issues, the new livestock systems and upgrades have been delayed way longer than I want. You can either flame me now for delaying the launch or flame me when I launch the site but have no fish or SPS/Clams to put on the site. I am NOT going to bring in livestock just to make people happy if I can't hold it properly. I'm losing business? Naww, I don't think so. Most of my existing customers know our ethics and understand the heavy weight on our shoulders right now and are standing behind us. All the new customers, with the exception of Basil63 and cyberpanther here, who have called or emailed are also very supportive.
The new website may have an online shopping cart but it will never eliminate the personal touch that Gary strived to achieve while he was with us. You will place your order online in the near future, but you will still talk to us before we ship it.
Thanks for listening.
Let me give you all some history and hopefully explain where we are trying to go. I am NOT trying to make excuses here to satisfy Basil.
Harbor Aquatics was started six years ago by Gary and Joy Meadows. Gary created the website to be an educational tool first and business generator second. He never cared that others might have had bigger and better "online stores" with fancy smancy bells and whistles and whiz-bang sounds. He always wanted to add a more personal touch, something much needed and missing in this hobby, to the business. Although we sell over the internet, we never have been, and never will be, an "online store" where you place the order and never hear from a real person. You are not buying a computer here, you are buying a living organism!
Sadly, Gary passed away at Ft. Lauderdale MACNA. Joy was left to run the business alone with sporadic help from her son Jeremy. Business naturally slipped a little bit over the course of the year, you try losing your husband and father and still try running the business. In October of this past year, I seized the opportunity to come out and help Joy bring Harbor Aquatics back to where we use to be.
What have we been doing?
1. New website built from scratch including new pictures, all new html, and a new shopping cart. Will feature a WYSIWYG section for SPS and Clams.
2. Because we have always been picky about quality of livestock, we have never really had a fish system except to hold a few specimens from Hawaii. Well, thanks to an increasing net caught industry world wide, we are now able to start offering a larger variety of healthy fish and are building a large fish system from the ground up. In fact, I recently spent a week touring some net caught fishing villages in PI. We have always been a direct importer of most of our livestock and try to visit as many of the actual collection sites as possible. Here is a link to some of the pictures I took: PI Village
3. Replacing ALL pumps and ALL plumbing on our already existing 20,000G of rock and coral holding.
4. Building a new, and larger, dedicated SPS and Clam system along with a seperate propogation system.
All the above plus taking care of daily maintenance duties along with shipping customer orders, answering emails, and dealing with walk-in customers.
I had wanted to time the release of the new website with the stocking of our new fish and SPS/Clam systems. However, because of electrical contractor issues, the new livestock systems and upgrades have been delayed way longer than I want. You can either flame me now for delaying the launch or flame me when I launch the site but have no fish or SPS/Clams to put on the site. I am NOT going to bring in livestock just to make people happy if I can't hold it properly. I'm losing business? Naww, I don't think so. Most of my existing customers know our ethics and understand the heavy weight on our shoulders right now and are standing behind us. All the new customers, with the exception of Basil63 and cyberpanther here, who have called or emailed are also very supportive.
The new website may have an online shopping cart but it will never eliminate the personal touch that Gary strived to achieve while he was with us. You will place your order online in the near future, but you will still talk to us before we ship it.
Thanks for listening.
I buy as much as I can from Harbor Aquatics not because they have a cool site online, but because I know I'm getting quality and knowledge. The new website will be great but until then lets let JT do his job they way he has been. Providing great customer srevice at a competitive price.
JT, I looked at the pictures on your link. Is it your opinion that the Phillipines is becoming a viable location for livestock again? I had been avoiding Phillipines sourced livestock until I had clear confirmation that their coral reefs were repairing themselves from the past abuse.
JT-
Thanks for the explaination . I knew some of the history, but not the electrical contractor problems.
Super Cow-
True, I haven't posted much-its nice to know you can read.
I am aware of what they are trying to do. It may have been a bigger job than anticipated(or not). The end result is the same.
Your examples of software companies is irrelevant here.
Yes, I like doing business with small companies. The problem is, some may not have their act together.
What do I look for in a MO company(large or small)? Good service with up to date, effecient info. That means knowing what they have NOW, not a month ago. I don't need someone to hold my hand.
I expect a good product, prefereably not a 1 inch frag .
FWIW, Harbor wont be the only one with a WYSIWYG-Cquarium, clams direct , Dr Mac(partly) and yes, FFE(partly). Possibly others as well.
Lacking insight? Perhaps.
I suspect not though. I am aware that time moves in a linear fashion.
I've been in this hobby for almost 15 years now. I've seen a large increase in the number of retailers online now. Unfortunately, I've watched a lowering of standards over the last few years as well. Service that would not be accepted in other feilds, or even in this one 10 years ago, are not only accepted happily, but defended.
This is not aimed at any one retailer, just the indusrty as a whole.
This is NOT meant as a flame, just an expresion of frustration.
Basil63
Thanks for the explaination . I knew some of the history, but not the electrical contractor problems.
Super Cow-
True, I haven't posted much-its nice to know you can read.
I am aware of what they are trying to do. It may have been a bigger job than anticipated(or not). The end result is the same.
Your examples of software companies is irrelevant here.
Yes, I like doing business with small companies. The problem is, some may not have their act together.
What do I look for in a MO company(large or small)? Good service with up to date, effecient info. That means knowing what they have NOW, not a month ago. I don't need someone to hold my hand.
I expect a good product, prefereably not a 1 inch frag .
FWIW, Harbor wont be the only one with a WYSIWYG-Cquarium, clams direct , Dr Mac(partly) and yes, FFE(partly). Possibly others as well.
Lacking insight? Perhaps.
I suspect not though. I am aware that time moves in a linear fashion.
I've been in this hobby for almost 15 years now. I've seen a large increase in the number of retailers online now. Unfortunately, I've watched a lowering of standards over the last few years as well. Service that would not be accepted in other feilds, or even in this one 10 years ago, are not only accepted happily, but defended.
This is not aimed at any one retailer, just the indusrty as a whole.
This is NOT meant as a flame, just an expresion of frustration.
Basil63
Basil63":3tfzzybp said:
There is a very valid reason for this. Something has to give. With the competition that is out there you are going to sacrifice sometimes other factors i.e. speed, and sometimes service. The markup on mailorder items is ridiculously low almost always less than 35%. Few businesses can operate successfully if they have any significant overhead. It can work if you get the volume and have the cash but there are plenty of examples of it not working like Reefers, and a certain RO company. When you look at other internet retailers especially bigger ones like Gap, jcrew.com and whatnot they are charging almost the same prices if not the same prices as their retail stores and retail clothing, jewelry and what not often have a markup of 200-500% or more.
Personally I think we are in the middle of a cycle here, we started off with fewer MO companies that provided good prices and good service. Right now for the past year and probably for another year or two you will see ALOT of MO companies lower prices and poorer service and slow deliveries. Eventually you will see less companies maybe slightly higher prices and good service and timely deliveries. This will take some time however because there is plenty of examples of people only caring about price right now, and providing financial incentive to poorly run operations but the market will eventually cull them out.
In another 5 years you'll likely see many familiar faces and some newer ones, and have long forgotten a few nightmares. :wink:
Yes and No. The really cool fish are still caught outside of the villages on the long boats. Every long boat is still heavily using cyanide. The villages are now learning how to use nets efficiently and improving their catches each time. Once in awhile we get lucky and come up with some of the neat fish but mostly it's ultra common, but very healthy, stuff like Vagabundus and Firefish.Super Cow":36pfm3zo said:
I've made purchases from Harbor, both live stock and dry goods (as recently as last week!), and have always been pleased with the service. I know JT personally, and trust his judgement. He is extremely knowledgeable and has never steered me wrong. I will continue to do business with Harbor Aquatics, look forward to the new website, and wish Joy & JT continued success with their fine establishment. I highly recommend them.
I've also made many purchases from Harbor and I've been very happy every time. 
For those of you who haven't been to Harbor recently, I've got a couple libraries of shots from my last two trips out there:
2001: http://www.liquidreef.com/stores/harbor ... 1_cat.html
2002: http://www.liquidreef.com/stores/harbor ... /index.htm
In addition, this past year Harbor graciously took a number of us on a back stage tour of the Shedd, which completely rocked. Joy/JT and the Shedd have worked closely on a number of projects. I've also got some pics of the trip located here:
http://www.liquidreef.com/stores.htm
Enjoy!
Shane
For those of you who haven't been to Harbor recently, I've got a couple libraries of shots from my last two trips out there:2001: http://www.liquidreef.com/stores/harbor ... 1_cat.html
2002: http://www.liquidreef.com/stores/harbor ... /index.htm
In addition, this past year Harbor graciously took a number of us on a back stage tour of the Shedd, which completely rocked.
Joy/JT and the Shedd have worked closely on a number of projects. I've also got some pics of the trip located here:http://www.liquidreef.com/stores.htm
Enjoy!
Shane
I would have to say that JT always goes above and beyond his responsiblity as a retailer to ensure his customer is happy. Even at the expense to his bottom dollar, which is a true rarity in any business.
If you were unhappy with the live rock you received, perhaps you should have spoken with him instead of trying to drum up **** on the ubbs about how bad their products are.
Of course this thread just goes to show the satisfaction of Harbor's customers.
If you were unhappy with the live rock you received, perhaps you should have spoken with him instead of trying to drum up **** on the ubbs about how bad their products are.
Of course this thread just goes to show the satisfaction of Harbor's customers.
OK so I have sat idely by as well and read the posts. I as JT pointed out did my share as well concerning the website not up and running, maybe I spoke to soon at the time of the post, then again its still not up. I understand there can be issues that may slow a company down as I think we all do. My concern then is what it is now, that if something continually is delayed it might (again I stress might depending on the company and I have personally never ordered from harbor so no reference here) refelct upon the level of customer service a company will give a potential customer, then again it may not depending on the conditions surrounding the launch of a website for example. Needless to say the big thing here is communication or lack there of. If a date is said, and then only after a post which obviously JT is upset about (not my intention), then that date shall change for whatever reason, the information should then reflect that as well. To simply go in and type somthing new for the homepage saying the new release date (as it changes) isnt all to time consuming. Now since only after the original discussion you changed your time, therefore, you definitely got credit in my book, but now that it is still not up and running and nothing new has been relayed then that takes you down a little in my book, not because its late, but the lack of communication (going back to the fact that I have never ordered from the company and therefore do not know if that would reflect upon the level of service, it may or may not, I do not know, but I do know that reflects in not as positive a way as it would if it had been updated). I give you a definite thumbs up for working through all that you had said before, but let us know via communication like in your earlier post that's all I ask, and why you seem to have ill feelings towards me I will never know (as my name was mentioned in a condescending way in your post). Personally I have no ill feelings towards you or anyone else, and am only doing my god given right to speak my peace. I am not trying to be mean or come across the wrong way, rather just giving my 2 cents for people to take with a grain of salt so to speak. I have posted other post about other companies in which I have recieved bad service from (not harbor never did business with them and from what I have read they are a top notch company) but my only concern lies with commuincation, nothing else. I hope everything goes well and I see your site up and running soon.
:roll:
:roll:
C'mon, gimme a break. Where in Business 101 is it written that I must communicate all my business practicies and decisions to you? I don't have to tell you anything.cyberpanther":2s6aqz6f said:
Whether I have a new site up and running today or next year doesn't matter. If you don't want to order from someone because they don't have an online store then don't order. Why you must continue to whine about it is beyond me. We have been in business for 6 years and have never had a fancy website that was updated daily. We are doing fine and not going anywhere. I still get at least two emails a day from people saying our current website is great and is has provided them with a wealth of information.
90% of our retail business comes from word of mouth. We only advertise on reefs.org and a small little ad in the pet shop directory in FAMA. Will I get more business with the new site? Probably. Will my business die if I don't setup a new site? Doubtful.
If you only buy from a site where you don't have to communicate orally to make your purchase, you probably won't like our new site anyway. We may have a shopping cart, but you are still going to have to talk to us before we ship you anything. Buying a fish is alot different than buying a pump or a replacement lamp. You don't click, click, click, and submit and have the fish show up at your door.
The new site will be up when it's up.
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