What Is an Established Tank

[Carpentersreef]

I think it would be a mistake NOT to include an experienced aquarist in the definition of an established system. We cannot simply walk away from our tanks and have them operate indefinitly on their own.
We must constantly play mother nature or God, if you will. We must be rainmaker when water evaporates, and we have to step in when disease pops up, or when uncompatible species are put together, despite our best intentions, and when the mechanical devices that we put in place to mimic ocean currents and lighting break down, we have to replace them.
Like it or not, the aquarist IS chained to his/her system. A sucessful system depends on it.

Mitch

 

[Carpentersreef]

Agreed, best hobby!
If someone DOES have all the answers, Then I'll agree to not disagree(maybe)

Mitch

 

[jdeets]

Yes, Steve, it has been a very interesting discussion so far. And your post raises an interesting point. It's pretty well accepted that over time, the diversity of your sandbed and other infauna will decrease, and that it's advisable to "recharge" the system with new critters from time to time. Shimek, I believe, recommends "recharging" once or twice a year.

If one factor of having an established tank is diversity, then age of the tank actually is inversely related to how established the tank is. Looking only at the time factor and the diversity variable, a tank will become LESS established over time. What makes the difference here? YOU--in adding new critters from time to time and keeping everything diverse in your system.

Anyway, this convinces me even more that an established tank is something that is shaped and created on an ongoing basis, by the aquarist, and that the experience of the aquarist can't possibly be divorced from the concept of an established tank.

 

[davelin315]

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An establish tank has the capacity to handlestandard deviations from normal conditions without long term effects to the tanks population

I think that quote hits it on the head. That was what I was trying to say in a much earlier post, but was not as clear as this one was.

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The crash was caused by a relay the turns the fans on to exhaust the heat from my hood. I would say the temp in the tank was 95-100 degrees for a couple of days. When I came back from a weekend camping, the smell was incredible. Virtually all the animals over 1/4"died. All the fan worms and a couple of rock anemones survived.

By the way, way back when, your post said that the crash was caused by an increase in temperatures up to 100. Keep in mind that bacteria multiply faster at higher temperatures, but that Oxygen also has less ability to dissolve into your water column in higher temperatures. You could have done several things to your tank IMO (see? I'm using the knowledge I picked up on posts to sound considerably less arrogant

). I would think that it would go in stages of development as far as your tank is concerned. The first would be your bacteria culture would have grown and possibly diversified (those liking warmer temperatures got a foothold and began to multiply). Second, your oxygen levels would have plummeted due to the increase bacteria and temperature. Third, this would in turn cause massive die offs of orgnisms needing the oxygen, and this would in turn foul your water, creating the smell, and killing off other creatures which need better water quality. Fourth, due to your decreased water quality and all the deaths in it, I would think that your anaerobic bacteria would have taken off, and started producing massive amounts of methane, which also could account for the smell. The methane bubbling up would have killed off more creatures, and your tank would therefore have suffered a full "crash" or a total collapse of the entire eco-system. This is all guessing, as high temperatures are very common in tide pools and such, and many creatures can tolerate these temperatures and fluctuations, but since you had creatures in there that couldn't, I would guess it's time to start over, and you should be expecting an ammonia spike, followed by the nitrite spike. I doubt you'd get the nitrate spike since my guess is the anaerobic bacteria in your community has a very strong foothold, but I would expect the others.

Anybody follow my logic? It's all guessing based on my limited knowledge, but it makes sense to me, so let me know what you think, especially those of you out there who are very scientific.

[ August 06, 2001: Message edited by: davelin315 ]

 

[Cruiser]

Davelin

Bingo

!. Good logic. Great description of a system colapse, very simplified and covers the main interlocked pathways - 02,pH,Temp,etc. Personally, I think the smell was from the decaying matter rather then anaerobic baterial processes due to the time frame mentioned, IMO (me too..

).

Depending upon how the tank was cleaned - removed the dead / decaying organic matter, might notice a ammonia / nitrite peak.
If a peak happens it will pass quickly due to the existing microbial populations. Might be enough DSB critters to repop., the sand bed but will experience a fairly long lag period. I'm sure Steve has already reseeded his sand bed.......which probably led to this topic.

Now 90+degrees over a certain time period is above the normal deviations (towards the higher end of the bell curve), but, with a slightly longer lag time then normal set-ups, this tank will recover. This is due to the functional bacterial bed, the established micro-fauna and the maturity of the system to recover.

 

[Anonymous]

Where were you guys back in May when I posted about my tank crash?

I didn't post too many details here about it because I got so little response during the "crisis" time. The scenario I believe happened almost exactly as the davelin states. There was one guy on another board that kept wanting to know what the parameters were. And yes, that is exactly where the post came from. It has been back up with good parameters for a couple of months (0on all the critical N compounds). It has been reseeded and the algae cycle is almost complete. In my research, several of the previously mentioned critters say it needs an established tank. That got me to wondering, what exactly do they mean.

jdeets,
In this instance I agree with you on the terms. I still think that to get the tank to the "established" stage, using the previously defined terms(although not, perhaps the exact time), it is not necessary to include the reefer. I do agree that to get to the point of "mature" that aquarist intervention must take place. Another thing that may throw a wrench into the mix is water changing and the survey Dr. Shimek is doing now. Regardless of where you stand on the veracity of the study, it can't be denied that we will get something out of it. Whether it is the knowledge that a true study should be done or not. There are many elements we can't measure without coughing up some rather significant money. It is another instance, jdeets, where the aquarist is necessary in the mix, whether it is to change water or add "snake-oil" or whatever. All this must be taken into account to become an "advanced" aquarist, which is what I think is being defined when you bring in the reefer

. I wholeheartedly agree that to consider keeping the "difficult" species, one must have, at least in his/her own mind, reached this vaunted pinnacle. It would be, IMO, an extreme disservice to the hobby, onesself, and the creature(not necessarily in that order).

Boy, it sure is nice to have a flameless discussion.

 

[jdeets]

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Boy, it sure is nice to have a flameless discussion.

I learned good manners hanging out in the Sump!

 

[davelin315]

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I figure I will be done stocking the tank in 2 years.

Oh c'mon Steve, who's ever done "stocking" their tank? There's always that one "I gotta have it" specimen around the corner or that "I haven't had something like that in years" fish! The day I'm done stocking my tanks is the day that one of the following happens - I die, I run out of money (but then there's always revolving credit...), or there's nothing out there that I don't have, have never had, or haven't had recently!

 

[Anonymous]

Once again, I see how inefficient my communication skills are

. I did not intend to bring into play the experience of the reefer. I was simply informing people the reason for the question, my ignorance of certain terminology, or the accepted definition thereof

.
I also have to respectfully disagree that the aquarist has anything to do with the tank being established due to my previous post and esmithiii's.
I will wholeheartedly agree that it doesn't matter what kind of tank is "inherited" that an inexperienced aquarist can destroy it. That only proves that he/she is not capable, at that time, to handle his charges. It does not necessarily follow that an inexperienced reefer will cause problems. He could have read and studied for a long time, and, even though the aquarist has never had a tank before it runs great because it was "inherited". I suggest that there is a time frame and population type that would cause a syatem to be established/mature. It is suggested to replenish the sand critters every 18 months or so due to predation and selective extinction. This would add diversity back to the system.
In all this discussion, I have gained an appreciation of how difficult it can be in Congress, etc.

It depends on the what the definition of is is

. I can also see that we are concerned to "get it right" so our charges have the best that we can give. I totally agree that to attempt the difficult species that the aquarist should meet most if not all of the criteria put forth by jdeets, but can not agree that it is part of the aquarium. I meet those criteria for having an established tank, and yet I do not feel/believe that my tank is eady for the difficult species. I hope that in this instance we can all respectfully agree to disagree and realize that we all learned something, even if it was only a little more about each other. Thanks for an interesting discussion, and if it keeps going, cool. Ain't this a great hobby?

 

[Anonymous]

Dave,
That is why they make more and bigger tanks

.