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davelin315

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I have read over a lot of the posts, and they express nothing but hatred of Arabs. That is the most ignorant point of view I have ever heard. Americans are all part of a large diverse group. That group includes Arabs, Jews, Whites, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, you name it, that group is a part of us and a part of our Heritage. When we act blinded by fury, we show that we are no better than the pariahs which have plagued this world over the centuries, individuals like Hitler, and movements like the Inquisition or the KKK. Throughout our history, genocide has been committed by those who carry their hate as a badge, and wear it proudly as they attack those whom they know nothing about, except for a false belief that hatred is the only way of dealing with them. That is what I have seen on this board. Whether it be a somewhat joking declaration that we should nuke Afghanistan, or a serious one, it is disturbing nonetheless. What is really disturbing are the posts that don't express an ounce of sadness or grief for what we have lost over the past few days, but express only how we can get revenge. People who say f-ck the Arabs are no better and no bigger than a Hitler, or a Mussolini, or any number of "leaders" who killed because they hated. We are supposed to be better than them, but we reduce ourselves to less than them by holding ourselves out as being better, and then expressing our stupidity. It's okay to express anger, it's not okay to express intolerance. Look around at the people you want dead. There are children there that you wish death on. There are innocents there that you want to hurt. By blindly hating a nation, a race, a country, an ethnicity, or a religion, you become a Nazi.

Today, I saw a segment on CNN about the Doctors, Nurses, Paramedics, and Medical Personnel who were on scene and who were treating those who were hurt. There were blacks, whites, Asians, Arabs, Hispanics, you name it, they were represented. The pictures of people running from the collapsing towers, they were the same, diverse. All fleeing a common enemy, hatred and ignorance, religious zealotry, and intolerance. That was what caused this destruction, people with those attitudes.

We strive to eradicate this, we look to the government to take action and destroy it. However, what we don't see is that it has already infiltrated us. It is here, it is in us. The same hatred that caused this tragedy has arrived here, and is among us, in our intolerance and hatred. Please think about what you do and say, because what you do and say will have an affect. Whether you mean it or not, it can be taken to heart by you, or by someone else. Today, I heard of firebombs being thrown at the windows of Arab schools. SCHOOLS. Where children who have grown up amongst us, that a few days ago, we would have sat and watched play and enjoyed it. Today, we try and hurt them. Today, I am proud to be an American because we, for the most part, have come together and are doing what we can to support those of us who have fallen. However, today, I am also ashamed to be an American, because of what some of us are saying and doing.

Those of you out there who blindly hate, I hope don't do anything stupid. There are those out there who have expressed their views without lowering themselves to the level of history's greatest villains. Those people are not wrong. The few that have not, you are wrong. President Bush said that these acts of war cannot shake the foundation of our society and of what the United States stands for, but they have already begun to crack that foundation through some of the things expressed on this board. Before you speak out against an entire people, think, and please, don't act your intolerance and hatred out.
 
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Anonymous

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There's a guy not far from me (20 min ride or so) that has a great big plywood billboard in front of his house - "Kill Them All"
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davelin315

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That's the kind of person whose messages of hatred keep us from realizing our true potential in this world. We are the greatest nation on this Earth, we are the ones that everyone looks to for guidance, whom everyone criticizes when it needs a scapegoat, but we still press on, an example for all of the world. But we are tarnished by people like that.

I, too, hate the people who did this. I would like to see them suffer and then suffer some more, and then, maybe, when they are disgraced and humbled, and when they have been shown to their followers to be the cowards that they are, make them suffer some more before ending it.

But, I don't wish this on innocents.
 

desktopsilver

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AND THEN THERE IS THE PEOPLE WHO HATE PEOPLE WHO HATE,,,WHICH NORMALLY OUTNUMBER THE HATERS THEM SELFS,TAKE THAT RAG OFF AND PUT ON A YANKEES BASEBALL CAP
 

NoriMuncher

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Good post, Dave. I believe that many posting ridiculous things like "nuke them all" are just blowing off steam(in a dumb manner), but they should realize that we need the support of our Arab citizens and help of our Arab allies to end terrorism.

I'm in favor of massive retaliation, but against the terrorists and governments that support them. We've got unconfirmed reports that some of the hijackers are from Saudi Arabia and Egypt, two friends who have supported peace in the past... if so we need to prove that they were not sponsored by their states. I'm sure they will cooperate in this.

I know emotions are running really high right now. But if we don't make distinctions between friends and enemies, we will never win this war.
 

davelin315

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desktopsilver, not quite sure what that post was supposed to mean, but from the tone of your post, I'm pretty confident that I care about this country more than you do. When you've worried through the night about family and friends, not knowing if they're dead or alive, afraid to call because you don't want to hear bad news, then I think you'll understand why what you said is so utterly stupid.

If it wasn't meant like that, sorry.
 

faztaz

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Dave I congratulate you on such an eloquent post.

Although the identity, nationality, and cause of today's horrible events remains unclear history is a reminder that people, when distressed and injured by tragedy, may find an outlet for their pain by incriminating
others. When the identity of such evil surfaces we should not associate it with a country, religion, or ethnicity, rather take it for what it is, a group of people whose intentions were of mass destruction and loss of innocent lives.

American’s who act in ignorance make me ashamed to be an American. Today there have been death threats to Arab and Muslim businesses, schools, and places of worship. Many of these people have been physically and verbally abused. This is not justified. This is not American. This is only showing the terrorists that they have one because we have dropped to their level. When a little girl goes to school and all her once friends now call her names like terrorist that too brings tears to my eyes.

By saying that you hate a religious or ethnic group you are in fact saying you hate some of your fellow American brother and sisters, who go to work everyday, pay taxes, help defend this country, and are shedding tears just as you and I are doing and have been doing since this event occurred.
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aquaguy

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That's a really good post!!! hey Dave, is really nice to have people that think like you among us. Some people have no options, they were born miserable they grew up without education and starving, with a "government" who "wash" their brains these leaders teach them to hate everybody else. with a different religion which force them to kill in order to be in heaven.... Let's face it; their leaders manipulate them, they are just puppets, But not all of them are like that, some of them escape out of the nightmare and some of them are good people, living here with us, they want to take the chances that they never had before. I agree, we can not hate them because they are not responsible to be born in their countries. We are so lucky to be born in wealthy countries. But I will hate those who don't care about others life, they have to pay their cowardice. And they will pay for sure.
 

faztaz

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Aqua let me tell you a little about myself. I was born Muslim and consider myself to be fairly religious. Before anything else I consider myself a Muslim. I was also born in the United States and just like everyone else I grew up on hamburgers, pizza, and TV. First and foremost I am a Muslim (which I am proud of) secondly I consider myself an American (which I am very proud of as well). My skin color may not be white, but neither is the color of almost half the Americans living in the US today. In fact the true American is the Native American so from that standpoint we can all be considered foreigners. English is my 1st language, and Spanish is my second. My entire education has been in the US, public up to college, private in College, and now public in Medical School. I pray five times a day and believe in one God. I am an active participant in soup kitchens, medical clinics, and other non-religious charitable organizations. Now with all this said let me be very very clear!!!


No where in the holy Quran does it say killing innocent people is Islamic. I do not wish I’ll upon non-Muslims, nor do the several other Billion followers of Islam. We are all brothers of mankind. Matter of fact Islam is very close to Christianity and Judaism, so much so that in the Quran it states a Muslim man is allowed to marry a Jew or a Christian. Like many of you I believe in Jesus and Moses (Isa and Musa, peace and blessings be upon them). To Muslims they are prophets just like prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). They are mortals just like you and I who were sent to deliver the word of God (Allah).

In times of war the prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h) gave shelter to Jews and Christians who were being wrongly persecuted, not by the Muslims, but by other ethnic and religious factions. Many a time the prophet fought side by side a Christian or a Jew to attack these evil factions. I have many close Christian, Jewish, and Hindu friends, some who are also very religious in their own right. Not once have I ever wished ill upon them, nor have they ever wished ill upon me.

Acts like these are committed by those who hide under the guise of Islam to gain support. They cannot gain enough support on their own so they use the universal banner of Islam to do so. How can Bin Laden claim that he is doing this for Islam when he just makes matters worse for Muslims as well. Islam does not teach violence. Jihad is not about death. It is about life. It is about promoting awareness and spreading Islam. Timothy McVeigh was a Catholic and he too was a terrorist. How quickly we assumed that his actions were of Islamic doing. After we found out it was one of our own boys who did such a terrible thing did we proclaim all Christians to be terrorists??? No. So by the same means how can you claim all Muslims to be terrorists?? If I am a terrorist why did I shed a tear when I heard the horrific news. Why did I stay at school to help out with the blood drive? Why did my father volunteer his services at the hospital to help the wounded? And why do I pray that those who are unaccounted for return to their homes safe and sound, and for those who have lost a loved one to remain steadfast?

It sickens me how quick we are to make generalizations especially when we are misinformed. Please before you make judgments take the time to read and further your knowledge. Your opinion will be an informed one, and not one tainted with “Westernâ€
 

gazpep

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I'm trying to get a better understanding of this whole Muslim / Islam issue.

One thing that seems to give it such a bad rap is the zealotry and intolerance pursued by countries such as Iran, Saudi Arabia and now Afghanistan with the Talibans running the country. These seem, at least by our (western) standards to be repressive regimes.
Is it the linking of the State to the religion that causes the problems ?. Presumably you can be a Muslim in a Western country without the tight reins that seem to stifle individual freedom in those countries.

I'm probably showing my ignorance of this religion here but this is probably what a lot of people feel and why the word Muslim has such a negative conotation with the average person.
 

EmilyB

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I just want to add something from the "God Squad" news airing, FWIW, a rabbi and a priest, who's collective message was that the Muslim faith should reclaim their religion. And so they should, I believe. It is time they stood up against this atrocity, in public. They are not all bad, but maybe they are important in the resolution. I heard today, there are "versions" of the Koran which embrace terrorism, and it is taught to the very young. This is from people who have escaped this type of tyranny.

So sad, so sickening, so souless...
 

NoriMuncher

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fmx, thank you for helping to clear the air. It my understanding that, historically, Islam has been a far more tolerant of other faiths than Christianity, to our shame. These monsters bastardize their religion to fit whatever motives they have. I'm sorry for whatever discrimination you have or will face due to this crisis.
 

Mouse

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Davelyn, a very politically correct post my freind. But im afraid that when those innocent people you seek to defend are dancing in the street, women and children armed and firing celebratory shots into the air with AK47's. Well i have to say that your a stonger man than i, i have no doubt that if i were there i would have lost my cool somewhat. Britain, as allways will be behind the USA 110%. At the end of the day you are our brothers and sisters, whatever race, creed or religeon. But i also feel that there comes a time when these people have to take responsibility for their own action. May i add that their have been "uprising" not "revolution", my fear is that the events of the past few days are a clear representation of the current mood in the enemy states.

The pen has become an unworthy advirsory to the sword.

Not only do we live in an age of persicution and racism, but also one of slavery. Its a sick sick world out there, and the bubble in which we have all been living, that bubble which only constitutes 2% of the world has burst.
 

Skybolt1

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Dave:
I understand all of you're points, but Dave being a "Prosecutor" you above all should know that part of what our country stands for is Freedom of speech.
Second: People are talking about innocents being killed if we go to war. IF we go to war we are declaring war on Terrorists, we are giving them plenty of notice. That is a hell of more than they gave NY or Washington. Do you not agree?
Third: I agree that not all Arabs are bad. But under the circumstances, whom do you blame? The circumstantial evidence is kind of overwhelming. What would you say the percentage is of World terrorists are Arab? We did not start this, the ladies and gentlemen that were killed at their desks, sitting in front for their computers, like we are now. They did not start this, they did!
Fourth: How dare you Judge people for what they say; You're not any better than them. The only difference is they are forming an opinion based on a horrorific sad set of events. You are forming you're opinion on views on a message board, which by the way is a overwhelming majority. You should learn to get on the side of the people if you want to further your car DAMN! I would remember where you live, and if you don’t like it, Get the F*** out.
I myself am very educated, I will be happy with no less than ALL terrorists eradicated.
If that means allot of people wearing towels on their head, so be it.
Let the post begin...
~Collin
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Anonymous

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This attack is just another benefit of religion. The responses that want to "kill them all" is another. How many wars could be avoided without religion????
 

Chucker

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High emotions may cloud clear thought, but do not excuse some of the statements posted above. Blind rage only furthers the damage caused by Tuesday's events.

Don't madly type out your posts and mash the "Add Reply" button- read them twice before sending, and think about what those reading them may interpret from your language. Remember, there is no tone or body language to go with the typed text, so everything can be taken quite literally.

I don't wish to close this thread down, but if the tone of some posts doesn't improve, I may very well have to.
 

faztaz

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Again please understand there is only one version of the Quaran. The Quran is really supposed to be read in Arabic for its true meaning. There will be slight differences in translations for example in various Qurans in English, Urdu, Chinese, French, Spanish, etc but if you open any Quran and turn to the same section and compare Arabic for Arabic you will find no difference. What some of the zealots do just as those zealots who claim to be Jews or Christians is they claim to themselves be messengers from God or have some religious enlightenment. They taint religion to suite their needs yet have no actual religious foundation for their claims.

To become a Muslim one must claim that there is no God but Allah (the same single entity that Christians and Jews worship), and that Muhammad (pbuh) is his LAST prophet (Shahada). We do not worship a person or prophet, we worship God. So how can the same Bin Laden who claims to be Muslim be revered as a prophet or prophet like. Again as in every religion you have your fanatics. For example here is an account by a US paper about how some Jewish settles are attacking their own Israeli police because they feel the Israeli government should kill all Muslims and this is their proclaimed land. These people also say that their religion proclaims they should kill every Muslim in Palestine. Do such stories ever get covered by Western Media, very rarely if ever (http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/2001 ... 99125s.htm), and it usually takes a back page. Do you remember the David Koresh Character how he managed to manipulate hundreds under the pretext of religion. Well the same can be applied to criminals like Sadaam and Bin Laden. Again please be clear on this, I’m not saying I hate Jews or Christians, I consider them to be brothers and sisters, and like I stated before I have many close friends who do not share the same religious beliefs as I do, but too often I feel many stereotypes are made about Islam especially in the United States.

For those of you who want to kill Palestinians I urge you to put yourself in the shoes of a Palestinian boy who has lost his father, a Mother who has lost her son, or a husband who has lost a wife, all in a war that is heavily funded by the United States. Sadly these people must go through the horrific emotions we are experiencing this week, each and every day of their lives. For now we must focus on our own losses and come to grips with what has happend and how it will change our lives. But when the dust settles and these terrorists are bought to justice I urge you all to open your eyes to foreign policy and the conflicts in other countries not only Palestine, but in Africa, Indian, Pakistan, Russia, South America, and Europe, and really think hard. Ask yourself if we (the United States), the most powerful country in the world, are an International Police are we being fair or are we playing sides??

I do not support the US funding Israel for its mass destruction nor do I support the cowards who use the banner of religion whether it be Islam, Christianity, or Judaism to kill innocent people.
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SPC

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Fmx2md, good post, I agree that civilized people should not lump one group with all the rest.
I do have a question though, you said "I do not support the US funding Israel for its mass destruction", in your opinion what exactly is this "mass" destruction you are referring to?
Steve
 

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