Fiji thread

[Anonymous]

It makes absolutely no kind of sense what so ever to concentrate 90% of your efforts on stopping 5% of the problem.

True, however, 90% of the peril reefs face is from pollution and more importantly, global rising sea temperatures. Because neither or these are "Point Source" influences, it is much harder to control and cease their influence than collection for curio, food, or aquaria.

Furthermore, if captive propagation is so easy and so readily available, and so inexpensive (atlantisaquatics comes to mind) why the need to continue with harvest?

 

[Kalkbreath]

The need stems from the fact that without harvest interests there is little reason for the natives to keep the fishermwn from blasting or the sawmills from sludging....But I stiil have yet be shown how anyone has proven a decline in target fish populations? Woods did not and that study relied on many others reports. what did this Hogdson person find that makes it seem that populations are down? please offer a link?
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[Anonymous]

kalkbreath-some hypothetical posits:

actions, whether human sourced or not,have an effect on any ecosystem.

our depth of knowledge of most ecosystem's complexity is lacking, or incomplete,at best.

it is therefore,presently not possible to gauge at what point our actions become damaging(lightly or irrevocably)to the ecosystems involved.

because of this, it's possible that we have (or have not) allready done damage before the repercussive results show up.

there is nothing wrong with supposing that human actions can have negative effects on an ecosystem(though you seem to be offended by this).

the attempt to research how an ecosystem functions will lead to a better understanding of how to safely exploit their resources in an environmentaly responsible fashion.

SO-even from your apparent position-that we don't cause any damage,- it still seems as if observation of these things, with scientifically sound data collection is still a good thing to do, regardless of whose side it ends up confirming.if your contentions are proved-more collection for all! if not- then sound conservation oriented measures can be effected-ensuring long term profitability for the industry.

the point may be moot, though, as it seems to me that advances in captive propagation and husbandry will resolve this issue on it's own!
i'm willing to bet that within the next 50 years-all hobby desirable species will be provided by farming, or captive breeding facilities.

why are you (seemingly) so opposed to the attempt?a logical answer would be appreciated, and looked forward to :wink:

 

[Kalkbreath]

I feel that this hobby gives the natives a reason to take care of their reefs.Food fishing, Run off from agriculture ,saw mill deforrestation are real threats to the reefs. These industries account for 80 % of the Islands income .These industies also can easily completely kill total reefs! Even under hypothetical over collecting , this hobby cannot kill any reef! Even when a volcano covers a coral reefs with lava , the reef will totaly come back in five years. But only if the waters in which this reefs sits are clean and pure. If we remove the only advocates of healthy reefs which live on the islands ,{those natives which control the islands} all that wiil be left is natives without incomes looking to open more saw mills and food fish companys.......and less healthy reefs. Also if one has to look for over a year to find one report which supports the notion of this hobby having a sustained effect on the health of the reefs.....what does that say about the probability of this idea being true? I would think Eric with all his might would have been able to come up with one sound finding ? But alas it was not to be..........
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[Kalkbreath]

PS Captive animals ARE better products and better suited for captive enviroments.......But not better for the reefs..........not if this means that healthy reefs are now of little use to the natives......?
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[Anonymous]

I feel that this hobby gives the natives a reason to take care of their reefs.

i agree

Food fishing, Run off from agriculture ,saw mill deforrestation are real threats to the reefs.

also agree
These industries account for 80 % of the Islands income .These industies also can easily completely kill total reefs!

ditto!(regarding the second sentence-i'm ignorant re:the income statement)

Even under hypothetical over collecting , this hobby cannot kill any reef!

an assumption-i'm still waiting for conclusive evidence, either way.

Even when a volcano covers a coral reefs with lava , the reef will totaly come back in five years. But only if the waters in which this reefs sits are clean and pure.

agree

If we remove the only advocates of healthy reefs which live on the islands ,{those natives which control the islands} all that wiil be left is natives without incomes looking to open more saw mills and food fish companys.......and less healthy reefs.

disagree-i'm also an advocate of healthy reefs-the natives can also take part in managing the locale as the source and ideal environment for renewable farming practices.still leaving income, and the reefs husbandry as an option!(maybe even better income-better livestock leads to better success for hobbyists-leads to greater demand and hobby growth-leads to more farming,ad infinitum...)

Also if one has to look for over a year to find one report which supports the notion of this hobby having a sustained effect on the health of the reefs.....what does that say about the probability of this idea being true?

absolutely nothing-the time needed to see results, or to collect data, has nothing to do with the veracity of said data-various processes take various time frames to become apparent, and some collection methods are more complex and time consuming than others.

I would think Eric with all his might would have been able to come up with one sound finding ? But alas it was not to be..........

i'm admittedly too ignorant on his work or findings to offer an opinion on the soundness of his findings, though i wonder if his, or others, investigations are complete yet.your language, though, belies an extremely personal involvement/attitude towards mr. bornemann(sp?)

thanx for your statement on your views-

 

[Kalkbreath]

i'm admittedly too ignorant on his work or findings to offer an opinion on the soundness of his findings, though i wonder if his, or others, investigations are complete yet.your language, though, belies an extremely personal involvement/attitude towards mr. bornemann(sp?)

thanx for your statement on your views- [/quote]............................................................................................ I love mr Bornemanns' work but why has he not published any data supporting his assertion that the reefs are being harmed by the hobby? Are these effects sooo elusive or is it the effects are but an elution?
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