Has anyone tried or heard of Eco Aqualizer??

[Anonymous]

Sure a friendly disagreement! This is quick as I am running out the door.

Toshika Yamazaki only shows up on a quick google search on the Aquequalizer page.

The support for 'far infrared ceramic' seems to all come from Japanese research that is suspect.

'Magnetic' therapies tend to be bs, unless at extremely high levels, and even then then effect is minimal. Most magnetic healing aids tend not to be magnetic. I would be curious to see if holding metal to the AE would show it is magnetic or not.

Also, if this product is so useful, why is it not being used in medical applications, sanatization applications and the like?
I find it too convienient that users of the product seem to be overseas.
The 'science' on their website is far too similar to other magnetic and infrared scams.

The scary thing about products like this is their ability to seem practical and real.

This link is helpful as to why I think it is bs:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-06/rs/index.htm

As in Carl Sagans 'Demon haunted world".

 

[Anonymous]

Righty,
Feeding trolls is against RDO policy,lmao :mrgreen:
David
_________________
BMW Dixi

 

[Jime]

:? I'm not sure why you're calling me a troll??! If a statement is made in a public forum that statement should be open for debate.
I think that there might be a difference between magnetic healing aids and the real science of the effects of magnetism on water. I suggest reading the review by Bob Goemans in FAMA magazine, May 2003 and "Water, Again (Part 1)" by Sam Gamble in the same issue. It might help those who are interested in ECO-Aqualizer better understand the technology. I'm not sure if the product does what it claims but I have an open mind and have a limited (very limited) understanding of the technology, but still willing to hear why it doesn't work.
Remember skepticism is good, ignorance isn't.

 

[Micah00]

A scientific experiment can easily disprove this product. Get yourself a glass tube and a few magnets and if you think the heat has some effect get a heat source. Place tank water in the tube and apply magnets. Now this product claims to disperse water molecules so your "free" water should rise to the top. I can almost bet you will be staring @ nothing more than a tube of water. And besides as I have mentioned as well as others this would be a much more viable product in medicine something that Johnson & Johnson could make a fortune off of if it were real. I'm going to set up a 900# and people can call and hold the phone to their tanks and I will send my physic energies forth to improve the ability of their skimmers, make their fish happier and more disease resistant, and while I am at it, I might as well give their corals the ability to absorb more light. Only 7.99 per minute!! And also realize that if someone paid me a hefty sum of money I would tell you just about anything they wanted me to also.

 

[Leopardshark]

Not trying to start flamefest 2003, but I think the latter of your statements can get you into bigger trouble then the first. Scam is a harsh word. Are you seriously suggesting that ecoaqualizer.com is a fraudulent business, deliberately swindling its customers? Why the STRONG anti-ecoaqualizer stanze? It is up to the manufacturer to give potential buyers information, which they have done, but as an "aggressive" critic you have a responsiblity to tell us why "it's snake oil", share your experiences or research. Because I said so doesn't count. The more I browse their site and the more I read the more I think that it just might work. Something I found on their site - Dr. Toshika Yamazaki , MD - "Far Infrared applied to water molecules begin a vibration which reduces the ion bond of atoms in water molecules. As the reduction of bonding occurs, encapsulated toxins are released." Not sure what it means but it sounds more convincing then "It's snake oil....". Why is it that you think that this product does not work?
P.S. just a friendly disagreement, I hope...

I agree with this.

A scientific experiment can easily disprove this product. Get yourself a glass tube and a few magnets and if you think the heat has some effect get a heat source. Place tank water in the tube and apply magnets. Now this product claims to disperse water molecules so your "free" water should rise to the top. I can almost bet you will be staring @ nothing more than a tube of water. And besides as I have mentioned as well as others this would be a much more viable product in medicine something that Johnson & Johnson could make a fortune off of if it were real. I'm going to set up a 900# and people can call and hold the phone to their tanks and I will send my physic energies forth to improve the ability of their skimmers, make their fish happier and more disease resistant, and while I am at it, I might as well give their corals the ability to absorb more light. Only 7.99 per minute!! And also realize that if someone paid me a hefty sum of money I would tell you just about anything they wanted me to also.

and also with this.

But who knows, maybe this thing works, maybe it doesn´t. I´m not a scientific so before I make any opinion in pro or in con, I would like to listen someone who is actually capable of performing a serious study about it.
Marco

 

[Len]

First thing first: no one's a troll. All statements expressed thus far are valid opinions and I encourage contentious but civil debates on this issue.

Jime,

The RDO Taskforce is an all-volunteer group of regular posters selected for membership based on their knowledge, expertise and willingness to help other posters. The RDO Taskforce members will take part on the boards to act as greeters, facilitators and to provide helpful guidance for getting the most out of your Reefs.org/MACO/Advanced Aquarist experience. In addition, RDO Taskforce members will be working on various projects for the website ranging from our chatroom, to our library, to brainstorming new and exciting venues for Reefs.org to explore.

 

[Jime]

Micah00,
Have you read the reviews? I assume by your comparision of magnets to your physic energies that you believe that magnetism has no effect on saltwater. Here's a quote from Sam Gable's article in FAMA's May 2003 issue... "When I say water has been changed or enhanced by magnetic effects, remember how it was done is subject for other long discussions, but without doubt it can be done, and has been done." Again, I suggest that you read the articles and the reviews on the product and magnetic effects on water. I would be happy to read the article that you referenced in an earlier post if you would post a link.
Another interesting article on The Polarity of Water Molecules
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/biology/courses/c2005/handouts/polar2.html

 

[Micah00]

Just went back to their web page and the funny thing was click on research. And it has all these quotes with the persons name underlined which you can't click on. Then at the bottom it has refrences with several links you can click on and every one is a chemistry web site that states absolutly nothing about this product. One is even a web site for a biology course at Columbia. I just think it is odd all I can get is a one or two line quote from someone I have never heard of, that seems to be talking about this product and when I want to see the reserch all I get are web sites about covalent bonds and how hydrogen attaches to oxygen like a magnet. I bet from this thread their web site has gotten numerous hits and who ever moniters that is telling everyone " We are going to be rich "

 

[Anonymous]

I think that there might be a difference between magnetic healing aids and the real science of the effects of magnetism on water.

Why? Do a search on magnetic healing and you will find very similar 'scientific' articles and reviews to those of the AE.
It is easy to make things sound scientific. Did you read the like to the Shimek article I posted?

I suggest reading the review by Bob Goemans in FAMA magazine, May 2003 and "Water, Again (Part 1)" by Sam Gamble in the same issue.

I read them both, and they seem like poor science without presenting any actual evidence. The Goemans review/ad is suspect.

I simply cannot believe that the magnet inside this thing is powerful enough to actually have any effect on water. Heck, I bet the magnet in my glass scraper is way stronger than it is.

From http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... oaqualizer

Randy Holmes-Farley say regarding the FAMA Goemans article:
"OK, I can't decide whether to be happily amused, maybe that this was even the April fools issue, or saddened by the fact that such incredible, ridiculous nonsense could get published and foisted on unsuspecting aquarists.

It is, of course, 99% bogus nonsense, with a trivially small amount of truth thrown in. In fact, one of the only things that I didn't question was the part that the "researcher" thought was black magic: that far infrared light might actually pass through a ceramic.

I'm happy to debate this issue with anyone that thinks it does something useful besides warming the water slightly.

In the meantime, don't waste your money."

Read the thread, its pretty interesting.

It might help those who are interested in ECO-Aqualizer better understand the technology.

Technology? Its a magnet (if it really is) in a tube.

I'm not sure if the product does what it claims but I have an open mind and have a limited (very limited) understanding of the technology, but still willing to hear why it doesn't work.

What are your views on Marc Weiss products? The articles and reviews of his products have a very similar feel and weight to those of the AE articles and reviews.

Remember skepticism is good, ignorance isn't.

Did you read the Shimek article I linked?

 

[Micah00]

I don't doubt the effect of magnetism on salt water at all where do you think waves on the ocean come from? And I don't have a link to the article I subscribe to the mag. But what is in the article is pretty much what I have stated. The reviews are biased testimonials from compensated endorsers. I mean do you believe say Jeff Gordon only drinks Pepsi from the time he wakes to the time he goes to bed? This product cost half as much as a good sterilizer and uses no electricity, they even say it never needs any maintenance. Even the walls around the back of my tanks needs maintenance, paint bubbling up and such. I'm not saying that this is not possible, but in my mind I would have to get rid of my neighbor, gut his house, and put some big old magnets in there. Then I could silicon the whole house and run a big water main from my magnet holding facility to my 55 gal and maybe work something out with NASA to get some infared or just get alot of TV remotes and duct tape the buttons down.

 

[Jime]

I guess I've said as much as I can without actual first hand experience. I have read about the effects of magnets on water molecules and I think we all agree that the effects are real. I guess the debate is if the ECO-Aqualizer is powerful enough to have an effect. That I don't know, I do know that people are using it and claiming positive results and I have no reason to disagree with their claims. I've read the reviews and have no reason to dismiss them as an April fools joke. The technology (The scientific method and material, could be a stick and a piece of tinfoil, used to achieve a commercial or industrial objective, in this case helping maintain an aquarium), seems less impossible the more I read. I guess the next logical step would be to try the thing out for myself.
I could be wrong, it's happened once or twice before.
I enjoyed the debate guys and glad that it didn't get ugly. Thanks

As far as Marc Weiss products. I have no idea what his products are, sorry. I did read the Shimek article and agree with it, That's why I wrote "Remember skepticism is good, ignorance isn't".

 

[Anonymous]

I have read about the effects of magnets on water molecules and I think we all agree that the effects are real.

Not really (what effects, on what scale do they operate)

I guess the debate is if the ECO-Aqualizer is powerful enough to have an effect.

Not really. Its more if it is possible for it to actually have any effect at all. Don't forget, its not just a magnet, but also a far infrared emitting ceramic.

That I don't know, I do know that people are using it and claiming positive results and I have no reason to disagree with their claims.

There are many reasons to disagree with their claims, as they are subjective. There are many people that swear by psychic surgery; do you have nay reason to disagree with their claims?

I've read the reviews and have no reason to dismiss them as an April fools joke.

No one has either. You missed the parts about how serious it is that crazy mumbo jumbo like that is believed by so many people.

The technology (The scientific method and material, could be a stick and a piece of tinfoil, used to achieve a commercial or industrial objective, in this case helping maintain an aquarium), seems less impossible the more I read.

Why?

I guess the next logical step would be to try the thing out for myself.

Thats exactly what they want you to do!

I enjoyed the debate guys and glad that it didn't get ugly. Thanks

I agree.

As far as Marc Weiss products. I have no idea what his products are, sorry.

Do a search here on them for some interesting reading.

 

[Reef Guy11]

Yeah I was disappointed when i didn't see them at the SuperZoo Convention. I wanted to ask them some Question about it. You would think that if they are so into there product selling, that they just might go to a convention where they can sell to Retailers. Also for them to have a whole page ad on TFH Mag and also on the product spot light page too, Why wouldn't they be at this Convention.

 

[Anonymous]

After a certain point, no matter what you say won't matter when people just don't listen. This discussion is pretty close to that threshold right now. It can get worse when people show up with credentials, and luckily, it is not at that point yet.

Let take the following quote.

Dr. Toshika Yamazaki , MD - "Far Infrared applied to water molecules begin a vibration which reduces the ion bond of atoms in water molecules. As the reduction of bonding occurs, encapsulated toxins are released." Not sure what it means but it sounds more convincing then "It's snake oil....". Why is it that you think that this product does not work?

Dr. Toshika Yamazaki , MD: I am Dr. David Magen MD PhD FA MBA MSCNT :wink:

Far Infrared applied to water molecules:Everything pretty much emits infrared radiation, no wonder the device does not use any electricity.

begin a vibration : hello?!? just like far infrared radiation, everything vibrates on a molecular scale.

ion bond of atoms in water molecules: chemist typically refer to the bond between the oxygen and hydrogen as covalent or molecular, not ionic. Typical of article that needs to be translated, or writen by people who does not have the right terminology of the field of chemistry.

reduction of bonding: magnitude of reduction is insignificant.

encapsulated toxins are released: chemist may use the term liganded or hydrated, but "water encapsulated toxin" probably is one of the most novel term in chemistry.

The quoted statement as a whole is munbo jumbo, and individual term within it is "weird." A proper English sentence may be correct in both spelling and grammar, but it does not mean that any academic publication will publish it.

 

[Bobzarry]

I figure the power heads in my 55 are doing at least as good a job as they produce both heat and magnatism on a large scale.


Bob

 

[Lifer]

Your powerhead produces an alternating current. + - + - + - etc..... It is the North polarity that lets ECO do what it does, which is "-" negative. I believe that the EMF's that come out of water pumps actually have a bad effect on our aquariums.

 

[Lifer]

The magnets that they use are made out of Neodymium which is a metal that holds the second highest magnetic charge. The first is Sumarium cobalt. These are pretty powerful little magnets.

 

[Anonymous]

So people with a magnetic cleaner on the glass 24/7 will have a healthier tank? :? I bet the magnet in the device is no match with my magnet cleaner when it come to magnetic "charge" :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

I don't doubt the effect of magnetism on salt water at all where do you think waves on the ocean come from?

Ok, I had absolutely nothing more to add to this discussion until I saw this statement. My question to you is, where do you think waves on/in the ocean come from? Actually, what may be a more pertinent question is why or how is it you came to believe that waves and wave action are somehow generated by magnetism? From previous posts I've come to believe you're an intelligent person, so my question (smartass though it sounds, I know) is an honest one. I am by no means trying to crack on you, and I know that neither you nor anyone else who has posted here is a troll. But I think this statement can't go unaddressed. This is some very basic science here, and is easily corrected, this is my aim.

Waves and wave action are generally generated by wind, earth movement in two forms--plate tectonics (tsunamis) and what I only know as the borealis effect (the spinning of the earth, this is what gives us our major oceanic currents and trade winds...the ones that help generate most wave action), and only very slightly by the moon's gravity (the two low and high tides all coastal regions have each day). We do have the aurora borealis which is, for all practical purposes, entirely generated by magnetism, but this is atmospheric, and a completely different kettle of wax.

I think we can agree that there are components of seawater that are affected by magnetism, but if magnetism were such a powerful force upon water or seawater, then wouldn't these components be concentrated at the polar regions? (Being as how they're both polar and the convergence points of earth's magnetism.)

The reason why no one can make sense of the claims made is because they are nonsensical. They remind me of Dr. Barefoot's claims on coral calcium. (One of his claims is that coral calcium has an antibiotic effect. We, as people with VAST experience keeping actual corals know what nonsense this is!) Mr. Pea has offered an explanation, IIRC, his field(s) of study have much to do with the ocean and its components, or at least I managed to get that idea stuck in my head (there is often little to no explanation for why I may get certain ideas stuck in my head). :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

I don't doubt the effect of magnetism on salt water at all where do you think waves on the ocean come from?

Ok, I had absolutely nothing more to add to this discussion until I saw this statement.

ahhh! you beat me to it! :lol: