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DOGMAI

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You hear a lot about buying tank raised fish. How it will help the fish in the wild by letting them be. I for one agree. I would buy tank raised fish all day long if it wasnt for one thing $$$$$$$. Lets take a tank raised false perc. Dont know how it is where you guys are but in central cali. if you want a tank raised false perc. be prepared to pay at least $18.00 a fish. Why would I want to pay that when I can buy one caught in the wild for $6.00? I think even somebody with money would still buy the cheap one just because its well, cheaper.

What my question for you is how much do they charge at your lfs for tank raised false percs. And do you buy them?
 
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Anonymous

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Considering the amount of time and thought I put into adding new fish to the tank the difference between 6 and 18 bucks is inconsequencial. I haven't shopped for a perc, so sorry, don't know the cost.
 

Vili_Shark

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Hi there,
I'll give you the main reason:

from my experience, the tank raised precs are much hardier than most wild ones(depends on origin+dealer etc.

I have t/r P.fridmani, percs and A.ephipium and I'd buy more if I could get'em, it just makes me feel better towards the hobby.

I payed much more than 18 bucks for my t/r fish, but where I'm coming from, we pay more for everything :(
 

DOGMAI

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Still dosent change the fact that if I want to "help the ocean and all its creatures" I have to get raked over the coals to do so. If they were really worried about helping the ocean They would make the tank raised stuff cheaper.

And if the tank raised are a stronger fish that means i can go through 3 ocean raised fish for the price of one tank raised fish. So i get three tries for the price of one and at the price of taking fish from the reef.

I myself bought 3 ocean raised false percs for the price of one tank raised and they are all doing fine.
 

AngelMaster

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I have a tank raised Clown fish that I bought for 18 dollars. I consider the difference between that and a wild caught one as a donation to the preservation of our reefs.

Theyre more expensive because it is cheaper to pay a phillipine villager 10 cents to go catch one in their backyard with a jug of cyanide than it is to successfully couple pairings and rear fry in controlled environments.

The question itself smells awfully suspicious of someone just trying to get a rise out of the crowd. I will bite no further.
 

fungia

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tank raise clowns are also less aggressive in my experience. i wish they were cheaper too but i understand that it costs more to breed fish then it does to steal one from the ocean. but i will pay the extra because i know i get a better fish and i dont take from the reefs.
 

Vili_Shark

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DOGMAI, ya might be right, but I still will buy t/r fish if I can find them.

I payed for my t/r perc about 28 bucks and for my Fridmanis 40.

Why? cause I think it's the least I could do to save the reef, and I know it's nothing, but it just makes me feel better.

About the t/r fish more expensive, well they are made in USA, expensive labour+sceientific research+food+time to raise a perc, and you compare it to a Phillipino diver who makes 5 bucks a day if it's his lucky day on catching many fish and on top of that you put the freight.

Nothing to compare the t/r fish will always be more expensive and it will change when there will be many facilities that will breed those species and real competition will start.
 

DOGMAI

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I guess that is one way to look at it. I guess that the people who breed the fish dont see it as a way to help the ocean they just see $$.
It would not bother me if the extra money went to helping preserve the reefs but it doesent and I think that is what gets me the most.
 

Len

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AngelMaster":12alvazd said:
The question itself smells awfully suspicious of someone just trying to get a rise out of the crowd. I will bite no further.

Personally, I don't think this is the case. It's a valid concern. The fact is most new hobbyists will choose the cheaper fish over the more expensive captive bred alternative because 1) they don't know the difference or 2) they just don't care about being conscientious. So logically, bringing down the cost of captive bred fish will go a ways in making it a more attractive option to more people and consequently help alleviate our hobby's pressure on the natural reefs.

However, the problem is breeding fish is obviously more labor and resource intensive then capturing them from the ocean. Thus, the simple economics of it is they have to be more expensive. In order to lower the costs of captive bred fish, I would imagine breeders would have to sell much high quantities. But to sell much high quantities, they're going to have to initially bring down the price. So there's the catch 22.

Either the breeders take a big financial hit (risking their operational viability) by selling their products at a much reduced profit margin hoping it'll generate enough volume to make up for the loss

or .....

We (the educated hobbyists) help others realize that it's worth supporting/buying captive bred fish which will increase their sales volume and bring down their prices over time.

I think the latter is more reasonable, viable, and less risky. That's why I encourage everyone to buy captive bred when possible, even if c.b. fish cost more. If nothing else, you get a tamer fish and do mother nature a service at the same time.

my two cents :P
 

Vili_Shark

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Well, ya're surely right on thatone, the guys who breed the percs got a good idea and for sure they are after the $$$.
 

DOGMAI

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I was just sitting here thinking about this and I realized why this relly gets me

I want to be able to buy the t/r stuff but I cant because at this point in my life I cant spend that kind of money on fish. People say do it do it do it but the breeders make it so that I cant. I guess what I am saying is that I am not upset with the breeders for making them expensive I am upset at myself for not being able to afford them.
 

Len

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For what it's worth, commercial breeders like ORA aren't making "bank," so any ideas that they're charging an absurd premium for captive bred ornamental fish - simply out of greed - isn't fair to them. As a business, money matters. I find it acceptable for them charge a premium over wild-caught fish (a premium I personally can justify) to ensure captive breeders are around for a long time to come.
 

Vili_Shark

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Hi ,
I dont know and I dont really care how much ORA are making, or better say if they can reduce the price of their fish and they dont.

There are not enough bredders that's for sure, and when there will be, the price will go down, simple economics, works everywhere.

It would have been the same if there were only 5-6 wild caught fish, prices would be high.
 

Modo

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It's a business not a non-profit organization. These people are rearing fish for a profit of course, but they are making another option to wild caught. Just because a business has to charge more for a product to stay in operation you get upset? It is very simple economics not a conspiracy theory.

Captive fish cost more to raise = higher cost to cosumer
Wild fish cost less to catch/ship = lower cost to consumer

Now you weigh what is more important to you, saving money or supporting a business that is making a viable option to harvesting reef animals.

I'm sure these people aren't out driving Porsches and living in mansions either. If so there would be a whole hell of alot more people doing it.
 

DOGMAI

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Easy there Modo. I dont think you read all of my last post. So until you do please refrain from acting like im selfish. I said it makes me upset that I cant afford what they charge not that they charge to much. (meaning I am upset with myself for not being financially able to buy them).

To quote Dr. Evil "Take it down a notch there Scotty"
 
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Anonymous

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I want to be able to buy the t/r stuff but I cant because at this point in my life I cant spend that kind of money on fish.
How can you afford a fish tank then? The price difference is a drop in the bucket compared to the total cost of a tank...
 

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