Have there been any (Human) deaths in the US related to cephalopods?
Have there been any (Human) deaths specifically related to the BRO?
Has there been any (Human) deaths specifically related to tropic fish?
If the answer is 0 then why are the ethics of owning this animal any different from that of owning obligate feeders?
Have there been any (Human) deaths specifically related to the BRO?
Has there been any (Human) deaths specifically related to tropic fish?
If the answer is 0 then why are the ethics of owning this animal any different from that of owning obligate feeders?
squeezix":ng4c3051 said:
Good point. Anthony Calfo was telling our club recently how he has accidentally poisoned himself three separate times while fragging palythoa (? I think it was palythoa, or maybe mushrooms?), just by placing a blade between his teeth to get a free hand. There was a story of a dog dying from eating one a while back.
Not suggesting we ban zoanthids or anything, but people should be aware of the dangers. Especially with BROs. Having been bitten by an octopus, I can tell you that once one gets an arm on your skin, it can very quickly pull its entire body onto you and bite you if it feels threatened. There's not much you can do to stop it.
Having said that, it would be a really cool way to assasinate someone James Bond style: "Can you feed my fish while I'm away (perfect alibi)? That's right, put it real deep in the rocks." Hoo hoo ha ha.
[ 90% deleted ]
Many things are dangerous. Zoos as mentioned above. We even incur a slight risk of electrocution every time we put our hands in the tank. Water itself is toxic in large doses. Should we license all of that?
I feel that a citizen should have the right to own (reasonable) things w/o approval from the government.
I also think it's weird and psycho that your first thought was to kill it.
Many things are dangerous. Zoos as mentioned above. We even incur a slight risk of electrocution every time we put our hands in the tank. Water itself is toxic in large doses. Should we license all of that?
I feel that a citizen should have the right to own (reasonable) things w/o approval from the government.
I also think it's weird and psycho that your first thought was to kill it.
That is the first really inane post I've seen from you Hwarang, what's up today?
It's not wierd, and it wasn't my first thought. I don't take the euthanizing of any animal lightly, and I did what I thought best ALL things considered at the time. If you honestly are going to equate a deadly animal like a blue ring or stone fish to dry good in a fish store, or a cup of water, then I really can't reconcile discussing this matter with you.
Jim
Edit, saw you just deleted it - too late.
It's not wierd, and it wasn't my first thought. I don't take the euthanizing of any animal lightly, and I did what I thought best ALL things considered at the time. If you honestly are going to equate a deadly animal like a blue ring or stone fish to dry good in a fish store, or a cup of water, then I really can't reconcile discussing this matter with you.
Jim
Edit, saw you just deleted it - too late.
I guess it touched a nerve. The cavalier attitude of "so we jus' dun keeled the critters" is really sad.
And yes, I do equate a **potentially** dangerous animal with any other **potentially** dangerous product, object or circumstance. Proper knowledge and practice can negate much of the danger. The rest is up to the individual. I want to retain my ability to own dangerous animals if I so choose. It's not up to you or anyone else to by my nanny.
Also, I think that the government should do less to regulate our daily lives. Gun licesnse, driving licenses etc I can understand ... you may kill others with those.
The last thing I would say is this: A LFS should be a beacon of knowledge for the hobby. You missed an opportunity to step up to the plate and educate some of your customers who might be interested in these weird and cool creatures. My hunch is that it was just easiest for you to kill them. It's more difficult to resell them to a store that is willing to sell them to educated customers.
And yes, I do equate a **potentially** dangerous animal with any other **potentially** dangerous product, object or circumstance. Proper knowledge and practice can negate much of the danger. The rest is up to the individual. I want to retain my ability to own dangerous animals if I so choose. It's not up to you or anyone else to by my nanny.
Also, I think that the government should do less to regulate our daily lives. Gun licesnse, driving licenses etc I can understand ... you may kill others with those.
The last thing I would say is this: A LFS should be a beacon of knowledge for the hobby. You missed an opportunity to step up to the plate and educate some of your customers who might be interested in these weird and cool creatures. My hunch is that it was just easiest for you to kill them. It's more difficult to resell them to a store that is willing to sell them to educated customers.
I finally took one home, and as I said kept her until she laid eggs and died.
I also never missed the opportunity to educate a customer, but that is neither here no there when speaking of keeping BR's or Stonefish within reach of a small child.
I can assure you that your characterization of my attitude at the time couldn't be further from the truth.
Jim
I also never missed the opportunity to educate a customer, but that is neither here no there when speaking of keeping BR's or Stonefish within reach of a small child.
I can assure you that your characterization of my attitude at the time couldn't be further from the truth.
Jim
Ok, I can accept that your intentions were genuinely benign.
Your argument of "a small child within reach" is what's neither here nor there. Do you also warn customers not to let kids crawl on the tank because it may tip over on them? Believe it or not, this almost happened to me when I was a wee lad. I tipped my pop's tank over trying to get a better view. I suppose I could have died and (oh noes!) the guy at the LFS did not warn my dad that the tank could tip. Ok, enough of that. I'm trying to tone down the sarcasm.
Anyhow, to state it from the high brained side of things:
An owner of a LFS also accepts a responsibility to adequately care for the livestock they have. This means getting healthy livestock and only selling healthy creatures, giving them good conditions and doing all you can to increase their rate of survival once you sell them. IMO, you forgot about that part of the equation when you decided to kill them. I would indeed place a higher value on human life, but I would find a way around killing them. I still assert that it was the easiest solution for you.
Your argument of "a small child within reach" is what's neither here nor there. Do you also warn customers not to let kids crawl on the tank because it may tip over on them? Believe it or not, this almost happened to me when I was a wee lad. I tipped my pop's tank over trying to get a better view. I suppose I could have died and (oh noes!) the guy at the LFS did not warn my dad that the tank could tip. Ok, enough of that. I'm trying to tone down the sarcasm.
Anyhow, to state it from the high brained side of things:
An owner of a LFS also accepts a responsibility to adequately care for the livestock they have. This means getting healthy livestock and only selling healthy creatures, giving them good conditions and doing all you can to increase their rate of survival once you sell them. IMO, you forgot about that part of the equation when you decided to kill them. I would indeed place a higher value on human life, but I would find a way around killing them. I still assert that it was the easiest solution for you.
I can't deny that. I'm responding based what information you've chosen to share.
Still, I think I can speak to the logic you were using. Your main concern seems to be that a person could be harmed by this animal. I doubt you take such aggressive steps to safeguard your customers from other potential dangers related to the hobby (some of which have been stated in this thread)- and you should not do that.
Still, I think I can speak to the logic you were using. Your main concern seems to be that a person could be harmed by this animal. I doubt you take such aggressive steps to safeguard your customers from other potential dangers related to the hobby (some of which have been stated in this thread)- and you should not do that.
Jim the eggs did not fowl the tank. Any octo that lays eggs will then die.
BTW people have some notion that blue rings are instantly deadly. In that SE Asia account Matt speaks of many were sickened but no killed. You get bit by one just get yourself some CPR and a resprerator and you will be fine.
I think killing a whole box of those guys was a HORRIBLE tactic. Many experienced keepers could have given them long lives and even learned something about them.
BTW people have some notion that blue rings are instantly deadly. In that SE Asia account Matt speaks of many were sickened but no killed. You get bit by one just get yourself some CPR and a resprerator and you will be fine.
I think killing a whole box of those guys was a HORRIBLE tactic. Many experienced keepers could have given them long lives and even learned something about them.
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