Ethics of keeping the blue ring octopus.

[Anonymous]

Jim the eggs did not fowl the tank. Any octo that lays eggs will then die.
BTW people have some notion that blue rings are instantly deadly. In that SE Asia account Matt speaks of many were sickened but no killed. You get bit by one just get yourself some CPR and a resprerator and you will be fine.
I think killing a whole box of those guys was a HORRIBLE tactic. Many experienced keepers could have given them long lives and even learned something about them.

Boy you noodnicks are something else - who said anything about a whole box? :roll:
A bite from a bluering results in paralysis within MINUTES, followed by unconciousness and death if not treated. "A bit of CPR" will hardly do it. Hours of cardiac massage are necessary, assuming it works on that individual, and the paramedic/doctor knows what to do. A small child getting bitten is a MUCH MORE SERIOUS MATTER. It's NOT an animal to kept and offered under the conditions I witnessed. PERIOD.


Jim

 

[squeezix]

People have gotten sick from fragging palythoa

 

[Anonymous]

Jim the eggs did not fowl the tank. Any octo that lays eggs will then die.
BTW people have some notion that blue rings are instantly deadly. In that SE Asia account Matt speaks of many were sickened but no killed. You get bit by one just get yourself some CPR and a resprerator and you will be fine.
I think killing a whole box of those guys was a HORRIBLE tactic. Many experienced keepers could have given them long lives and even learned something about them.

Boy you noodnicks are something else - who said anything about a whole box? :roll:
A bite from a bluering results in paralysis within MINUTES, followed by unconciousness and death if not treated. "A bit of CPR" will hardly do it. Hours of cardiac massage are necessary, assuming it works on that individual, and the paramedic/doctor knows what to do. A small child getting bitten is a MUCH MORE SERIOUS MATTER. It's NOT an animal to kept and offered under the conditions I witnessed. PERIOD.


Jim

Jim, I think he is referring to my post, where I said the shipment was ultimately euthanized.

And yes, if you survive the bite, artificial respiration is often required for long periods of time.

 

[Mihai]

OK, my 2 cents: they should be legal strictly from a danger point of view (from a "special needs/ short lifespan" point of view it's a different discussion).

The only trick is for the LFS to have the buyers sign a paper such that the LFS will not be liable in case of stupidity of the customers. Without such a paper I would not sell the BRO to any customer in the "sue you" land.

I think that many other dangerous goods and animals are legal and that they should be: if properly used they can be enjoyed by most of the reasonable persons and occasional stupidity should not prevent the others from enjoying them.

All the best,
Mihai

 

[reefann]

Boy you noodnicks are something else - who said anything about a whole box? icon_rolleyes.gif
A bite from a bluering results in paralysis within MINUTES, followed by unconciousness and death if not treated. "A bit of CPR" will hardly do it. Hours of cardiac massage are necessary, assuming it works on that individual, and the paramedic/doctor knows what to do. A small child getting bitten is a MUCH MORE SERIOUS MATTER. It's NOT an animal to kept and offered under the conditions I witnessed. PERIOD.

Calm down there happy pants. I just said that I thought that Galleon's tactics were unjust. You take everything so freaking personally. I also feel that most people would be able to find medical help if bitten.
I could find more deaths caused by domesticated dogs than caused by the BLOODTHIRST blue ring octopus. ( And I would even leave out the trained or abused dogs that are actually bloodthirsty).

 

[Anonymous]

Calm down there happy pants. I just said that I thought that Galleon's tactics were unjust. You take everything so freaking personally. I also feel that most people would be able to find medical help if bitten.
I could find more deaths caused by domesticated dogs than caused by the BLOODTHIRST blue ring octopus. ( And I would even leave out the trained or abused dogs that are actually bloodthirsty).

You just don't get it do you? Those BR's can kill a person simply sticking his hand in the tank-you don't need to get bitten if it has been disturbed and cut loose with venom.

The fact that Galleon's facility will not take the moral, much less possible financial responsibility for selling such a potentially dangerous animal is easy to understand.

 

[Anonymous]

Boy you noodnicks are something else - who said anything about a whole box? icon_rolleyes.gif
A bite from a bluering results in paralysis within MINUTES, followed by unconciousness and death if not treated. "A bit of CPR" will hardly do it. Hours of cardiac massage are necessary, assuming it works on that individual, and the paramedic/doctor knows what to do. A small child getting bitten is a MUCH MORE SERIOUS MATTER. It's NOT an animal to kept and offered under the conditions I witnessed. PERIOD.

Calm down there happy pants. I just said that I thought that Galleon's tactics were unjust. You take everything so freaking personally. I also feel that most people would be able to find medical help if bitten.
I could find more deaths caused by domesticated dogs than caused by the BLOODTHIRST blue ring octopus. ( And I would even leave out the trained or abused dogs that are actually bloodthirsty).

I get it now, but I don't take EVERYTHING personaly. :wink: Just what I percieve as unjust attacks on my character - maybe a few other things.

 

[Anonymous]

Fishaholic:
have never got into nano tanks but I think I might start a 5 gallon nano reef with one of these and a large Mantis Shrimp.

The largest commonly traded stomatopod is OS (peacock) and they get to be about 5-6" in legth from eyeballs to telson. They require at least 20g of water and you're much safer going with an acrylic tank.

 

[Anonymous]

Calm down there happy pants. I just said that I thought that Galleon's tactics were unjust. You take everything so freaking personally. I also feel that most people would be able to find medical help if bitten.
I could find more deaths caused by domesticated dogs than caused by the BLOODTHIRST blue ring octopus. ( And I would even leave out the trained or abused dogs that are actually bloodthirsty).

You just don't get it do you? Those BR's can kill a person simply sticking his hand in the tank-you don't need to get bitten if it has been disturbed and cut loose with venom.

The fact that Galleon's facility will not take the moral, much less possible financial responsibility for selling such a potentially dangerous animal is easy to understand.

We don't sell animals. The wholesaler we have a relationship with wouldn't sell them. We wouldn't keep them due to the risk of harm for our staff and guests.

 

[Anonymous]

We don't sell animals. The wholesaler we have a relationship with wouldn't sell them. We wouldn't keep them due to the risk of harm for our staff and guests.

Sorry that wasn't worded well, I know you folks don't sell the critters. But even if you were to give them away you would still be liable of anyone got hurt.

 

[Joew]

I have to agree that certain species of critters should never be kept. Abit off, if a frog person wants to keep certain species of frog that use toxins as a defense i seen no problem with that. But BRO should be left to the ocean or research labs that have proper protocols with dealing with venomous creatures. Some KNUCKLEHEAD (not our beloved knucklehead) will get bit, only a matter of time. MO is that certain species should be banned from collection, even if the numbnut has a permit to keep it he will be bit from not being careful, only takes one CHOMP. The other thing about the LFS that wanted to keep one on the counter, guy shood be shot for even thinking it.


Peace,
JoeW
_________________
u.s. recession

 

[Anonymous]

Fishaholic:
have never got into nano tanks but I think I might start a 5 gallon nano reef with one of these and a large Mantis Shrimp.

The largest commonly traded stomatopod is OS (peacock) and they get to be about 5-6" in legth from eyeballs to telson. They require at least 20g of water and you're much safer going with an acrylic tank.

Ahh but the challange will be to keep both in a 5 gallon and never do water changes.

 

[Anonymous]

I have to agree that certain species of critters should never be kept. Abit off, if a frog person wants to keep certain species of frog that use toxins as a defense i seen no problem with that. But BRO should be left to the ocean or research labs that have proper protocols with dealing with venomous creatures. Some KNUCKLEHEAD (not our beloved knucklehead) will get bit, only a matter of time. MO is that certain species should be banned from collection, even if the numbnut has a permit to keep it he will be bit from not being careful, only takes one CHOMP. The other thing about the LFS that wanted to keep one on the counter, guy shood be shot for even thinking it.


Peace,
JoeW

 

[Tackett]

Fishaholic:
have never got into nano tanks but I think I might start a 5 gallon nano reef with one of these and a large Mantis Shrimp.

The largest commonly traded stomatopod is OS (peacock) and they get to be about 5-6" in legth from eyeballs to telson. They require at least 20g of water and you're much safer going with an acrylic tank.

Ahh but the challange will be to keep both in a 5 gallon and never do water changes.

Hey man, where have you been? dont you know that you just add plantlife? Not only will they remove all heavy metals from your water, they will detoxify Blue ringed octopuses and make mantis shrimp docile :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Silly, plant life (if you add it as your first step) will manufacture Blue ring octopuses all on it's own, sans poison saliva. Just get the plant life going first.

 

[Tackett]

Silly, plant life (if you add it as your first step) will manufacture Blue ring octopuses all on it's own, sans poison saliva. Just get the plant life going first.

LOL.

oh yeah, and FYI, CPR is a last ditch effort in an emergency situation. It aint what you see on TV, you'll almost always add a cracked ribcage to whatever caused them to get cpr. And cpr wont do **** for something that attacks your neurologic system. Unless you treat whatever is causing the paralysis you will be pumping away at them forever, or they will be on a vent forever.

 

[Anonymous]

oh yeah, and FYI, CPR is a last ditch effort in an emergency situation. It aint what you see on TV, you'll almost always add a cracked ribcage to whatever caused them to get cpr. And cpr wont do crap for something that attacks your neurologic system. Unless you treat whatever is causing the paralysis you will be pumping away at them forever, or they will be on a vent forever.

The bite might be painless, but this octopus injects a neuromuscular paralysing venom. The venom contains some maculotoxin, a poison more violent than any found on land animals. The nerve conduction is blocked and neuromuscular paralysis is followed by death. The victim might be saved if artificial respiration starts before marked cyanosis and hypotension develops. The blue-ringed octopus is the size of a golf ball but its poison is powerful enough to kill an adult human in minutes. There's no known antidote. The only treatment is hours of heart massage and artificial respiration until the poison has worked its way out of your system.

The venom contains tetrodotoxin, which blocks sodium channels and causes motor paralysis and occasionally respiratory failure. Though with fixed dilated pupils, the senses of the patients are often intact. The victims are aware but unable to respond.

Regards,
David Mohr

 

[Tackett]

The victim might be saved if artificial respiration starts before marked cyanosis and hypotension develops. The blue-ringed octopus is the size of a golf ball but its poison is powerful enough to kill an adult human in minutes. There's no known antidote. The only treatment is hours of heart massage and artificial respiration until the poison has worked its way out of your system.

wasnt trying to imply that there was an antidote.
That was a good read though, btw. I did not know that it containted tetrodotoxin, I only knew that it was a neruotoxin which I assumed was some form of acetylcholine receptor blocker. I was wrong.

 

[Tackett]

Calm down there happy pants. I just said that I thought that Galleon's tactics were unjust. You take everything so freaking personally. I also feel that most people would be able to find medical help if bitten.

A doctor in my hickville state, would have no frickin clue as to what the hell was wrong with me if I was bit by one of those.

 

[Anonymous]

What it comes down to is that the general population is not smart enough to have unrestricted access to these animals. I also include venemous snakes, crocodile monitors, etc. While there might be "many" aquarists able and willing to give it a good home and practice proper safety techniques, there are FAR MORE idiots out there that are likely to end up with the animal. Idiots have money too.
I've handled and kept crocodile monitors, I know what I'm doing. I've handled venemous snakes in the field for years, again, I know what I'm doing. I kept a blue ring in captivity until it died of natural causes. I've kept 7' black throat monitors that weigh more than most people's dog. This doesn't mean any schmuck should be doing the same. There are plenty of people on this board capable of keeping certain critters just as I have, in fact maybe most of you, I realize I'm not unique. The fact of the matter though is that the idiot factor out there is just too high to make these animals available to ANYONE with a Visa card.


Jim