Calling beaslbob!! need help?

[polcat]

Bob, I just enetered the nano build off and I want to use your method. I'm being totaly serious here. I have a small 7g (I think) flat back hex tank, hang on filter, 18w PC light, oyster shells, and tap water. I want to do this like you suggest with minimum maintanence.

I'm going to plumb it and fill with dechlorinated tap/salt water this week. What should the next steps be...I have some LR and some base rock, what substrate do you suggest? Is instant ocean OK for the salt? What macro's should I start looking for?

I may get some flamming but that's OK. I've never tried this method, I basically started in the hobby with bare bottom etc. I will take frags from my existing tank to stock the nano, should provide some interesting comparisons. Anyway I would appreciate your help to see if I can be successful with this tank using your methods.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Anonymous]

We can still enter?

 

[polcat]

Yes, until April 30th. Needs to be up and running by then.

 

[Anonymous]

Hrrrmmmmmm.

 

[Oceans Ferevh]

You should join the fun Chris

 

[Anonymous]

Polcat: I give up just exactly what is "my" method? :lol:

Bob, I just enetered the nano build off and I want to use your method. I'm being totaly serious here. I have a small 7g (I think) flat back hex tank, hang on filter, 18w PC light, oyster shells, and tap water. I want to do this like you suggest with minimum maintanence.

I'm going to plumb it and fill with dechlorinated tap/salt water this week.

no need to dechlorinate the tap water. But I do recommend you use cold water from the most frequently use tap and let the water run for at least a minute before collecting it.

What should the next steps be...I have some LR and some base rock,

I was going to give you a whole list of things. But to keep it simple, do the refugium and get the plant life thriving as the first thing. then do the rest.

what substrate do you suggest?

Play sand from any source like home depot, wall mart, lowes, etc etc etc

Is instant ocean OK for the salt?

should be

What macro's should I start looking for?

if you use the in tank refug then chaeto is a good choice. Caulperpa profilera does very will under lower lighting. With stronger lighting grape (caulerap racemose?????) took off. Although slower growing, and with a deaper substraight and lots light and calcium, halimeda, sharing brushes, fans do well. To get things rapidily established the chaeto and prolifera are good choices.

I may get some flamming but that's OK. I've never tried this method, I basically started in the hobby with bare bottom etc. I will take frags from my existing tank to stock the nano, should provide some interesting comparisons. Anyway I would appreciate your help to see if I can be successful with this tank using your methods.

Thanks,

Mike

I use about 5x water flow through the oyster shells and rinse them out once per week. Also have red lava landscape rocks at the entrance and exit of the oyster shells in the trickle filter. I also have ~ 220W on top and ~160w behind my tank(lighting up the in tank refug). On a 55g that is around 8 watts per gallon. So your lighting would appear to be a little less than that. Also keep in mind the no water changes. that way if things do start going south, it will be apparent quickly and not masked over a much longer time. And you will reach the steady very quickly.

I do think you may be pleasently suprised at how effective and easy to maintain this will be. Basically you can tell the condition or the tank just be looking at it. Green water less light. macros slow down and you get cyano, harvest the macros. things like that.

sure you'll have to do some cleanup. but a lot less than you are used to.

Good luck. Wish I had the space for another tank.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree, Bethany...I need to get a plan in place!

 

[Anonymous]

no need to dechlorinate the tap water. But I do recommend you use cold water from the most frequently use tap and let the water run for at least a minute before collecting it.

Seriously!

You cannot claim to have success?

 

[Anonymous]

no need to dechlorinate the tap water. But I do recommend you use cold water from the most frequently use tap and let the water run for at least a minute before collecting it.

Seriously!

You cannot claim to have success?

Been doing it since the late 70's in 1/2 dozen cities in the US. Never had a single fish stressed in any way when plant life was in control. Additionally, IMO is doubly true for a salt tank where the mixing in the salt further helps remove the chlorine.

 

[Anonymous]

Additionally, IMO is doubly true for a salt tank where the mixing in the salt further helps remove the chlorine.

Link? any proof of that? This is the first ive heard of chlorine being removed by mixing salt..as for fw...Chlorine is definetely unhealthy at minimum for fish...

 

[Anonymous]

Actually someone on this board even mentioned the salt mixes have dechlorinators. But even without that, chlorine gas dissipates in a matter of hours. Chlorimine is chlorine ammonia compound. which breaks down to chlorine and ammonia. So it may take a day at the most to break down to the gas and plant food. Either one happens faster with circulation

Either way by the time the tank is ready to be stocked, all traces of either have left the system weeks ago. And a 10% weekly addition of mixed an aeriated water just is not enough to worry about.and if you just replace evaporative water even less.

So no need to worry about the chlorine or chlorinime in tap water.

 

[Anonymous]

Actually someone on this board even mentioned the salt mixes have dechlorinators. But even without that, chlorine gas dissipates in a matter of hours. Chlorimine is chlorine ammonia compound. which breaks down to chlorine and ammonia. So it may take a day at the most to break down to the gas and plant food. Either one happens faster with circulation

Either way by the time the tank is ready to be stocked, all traces of either have left the system weeks ago. And a 10% weekly addition of mixed an aeriated water just is not enough to worry about.and if you just replace evaporative water even less.

So no need to worry about the chlorine of chlorinime in tap water.

If you can provide concrete evidence of this ill eat my words...Ive never even heard of this kind of recommondation on this board...Ive been keeping FW fish for 16yrs and have never heard of chlorine or chloromine disappating in such short periods of time..and in the 2+yrs of reefkeeping Ive never heard of synthetic sea salt breaking down chlorine, even whist being vigorously circulated..Chlorine aggitates fish gills i cant imagine what ill effects will have on inverts in a reef tank...

 

[Anonymous]

Honestly Polcat, im glad you are doing this experiment..this could prove once and for all how great bobs method is..although its not pure scientific due to repeatability and other factors..But please post pix, even in the GRD...DO EXACTLY AS BOB instructs and document what is being instructed to aliviate any miscommunication or false claims...

 

[Anonymous]

And a 10% weekly addition of mixed an aeriated water just is not enough to worry about

And it would have to sit at least a week to ensure the break down of chlorine. Toping off with tap water the same day you gather the tap water is still gonna add chlorine, it doesnt disappear after it leaves the faucet, no matter how long you let the faucet run...this is unhealthy for livestock and at the very least the fish...This is my concern here..for the livestock, which depend on you, the caregiver, for adequate means of surviving..

 

[wayne in norway]

Loathe as I am to agree with bealsbob on the merits of his philosophy he's not too far from the truth here. The chlorine will dissipate pretty damn quickly (though chloramine will take a while longer), and compared to the huge amount of chlorine ions already knocking around in there this isn't really a huge issue. 24 hours standing time is plenty , though I'd like more for chloramine.
I do have issues with his yellow water and algae though. If he ever put a decent skimmer on his tank he might rapidly change his tune.

 

[Anonymous]

yep, sorry Lord but the Beasl is correct with this one. Almost all salt mixes add Sodium thiosulfate. This chemical will quickly break the bond of cloramine and bind with the chlorine. There can be a significant amount of ammonia produced though but not more than the typical tank filtration can handle for all but the largest water changes.

Left on its own the chlorine tends to dissipate in less that 24 hours, longer for chloramine, it could be even as long as a week.

 

[Anonymous]

ok id still like to see some evidence of this but for the time being, ill eat my words..however adding tap water the same day of collecting it before a 24hr window to ensure the dissappation of chlorine, youd still be adding chlorine to the tank. Im talking top off not a fresh 10% mix of salt water as a water change. Bob does not do water changes, so adding freshly collected tap water will add new chlorine nonetheless..

 

[polcat]

This is going to be interesting, haven't even added water yet and we have a good debate going. I bought a 10g last night so the nano will be a 7g fuge and 10g display. I have some play sand (not southdown) about 10 lbs of LR and 20 lbs of base. Per Bob I will fill with tap water after running for one minute from the cold water faucet. Wait one day and add the rock.

Bob, on a side, just so you know I'm not doing this to prove anything. I just want to learn and document for others what works or doesn't. If tap water works I already learned something

 

[Anonymous]

Hey, if ya can, check the TDS on the tap water, and run some tests on it.. just to see what you are dealing with. Also, what's your location? This would be interesting to know.

~wings~

 

[Anonymous]

ok id still like to see some evidence of this but for the time being, ill eat my words..however adding tap water the same day of collecting it before a 24hr window to ensure the dissappation of chlorine, youd still be adding chlorine to the tank. Im talking top off not a fresh 10% mix of salt water as a water change. Bob does not do water changes, so adding freshly collected tap water will add new chlorine nonetheless..

Lord: more than anything else these fears reflect what I call static thinking. To me what is important is the conditions of the water in the tank. Everything else is irrelevant.

I single ion of chlorine does not remain in the water killing all the fish and corals. neither does an ion of copper, lead, iron, phosphate, nitrate, ammonia or anything else.

In the case of chlorine I am not keeping the tap water in a tightly closed container and adding it to a tank that is also tightly closed. Instead I am taking the same water I drink, running it into a bucket, carrying the bucket to the tank and pouring it into the tank. All the time agitating and aerating the water. Then the tank has circulation to further aerate out the chloring and/or further break down the chloramine to ammonia and chlorine gass. If you mix it with salt you further dechlorinate and aerate the mix. And finally the plant life rapidily consumes any ammonia spike.

the result and based upon years of experience is a tank with no harmful levels of chlorine or ammonia.

this is not to say I don't consider the water put into the tank. But any water fit for human consumption is also fit for corals and fish to poop and pee in. Aquariums are not static things. And one of the most important dynamics is the action of the plant life even algaes on life rock. But with macros being actively harvested, the water can be maintained suitable for any life even when water fit for human consumption was used initially in the system. After that, the much smaller amount of water added is easily conditioned to keep the system running. Just as it has in numerous tanks in various cities since the late 70's.