Surge Device Thread

[Anonymous]

YEs, but did you check out my pic???


The float must be lightweight as well as the stopper must be lightweight, but the air actually pushes up on the stopper while its rushing in


I think it will work, who wants to build it?

 

[Anonymous]

Okay, here is an even better one involving the use of BALLOONS!!!



Hey, what can I say, I am a freakin clown after all!


hehe


anyway, the air is sucked out by using the venturi, and as the water level rises it eventually forces the air in the balloon out into the outside balloon and that lifts the lid on the large air vent. The water then rushes out and because the amount of air that can go from balloon to balloon is restricted, the water will all rush out before the silly thing can close.




Anyone want to pick out what is wrong with that little scenario? I have allready found a problem....

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, but if you have a tall float (ie piece of styrofoam) it'll only push up when enough force to counteract the suction of all the weight of water. But once it pops open the only force it has to fight against is the weight of the flapper which would be much less, as a result less of the float needs to be submerged, so it'll hold up the flapper as the water empties.

Of course one thing I really don't want to deal with is figuring out how much float is needed to pop the guy up, since the more float you use the less space for water so less float is really needed

 

[Anonymous]

Just some more random thoughts.

Water is something like about 64 pounds per cubic foot. So over an area of one square foot a one foot tall column of water exerts 64 pounds. or 64/144 psi about 1/2 psi


Seems to me any air valve that would open at about 1/2 psi and remain open until say 1/8 psi is all that is needed.

So maybe just a weighted flapper valve is all that is needed with the weight holding the valve closed until that 1/2 psi.

good luck on that one :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Just some more random thoughts.

Water is something like about 64 pounds per cubic foot. So over an area of one square foot a one foot tall column of water exerts 64 pounds. or 64/144 psi about 1/2 psi


Seems to me any air valve that would open at about 1/2 psi and remain open until say 1/8 psi is all that is needed.

So maybe just a weighted flapper valve is all that is needed with the weight holding the valve closed until that 1/2 psi.

good luck on that one :lol:

Welcome to Roberto's post on page one

The problem is pressure relief valves are expensive, at least all plastic ones. The ones I googled were like $250. Rotating ball valves are expensive too, and I don't know if they would spin fast enough to let the air out quickly. I'm researching solenoids right now...

 

[Anonymous]

I know I no. :lol:

I calculated a 1/2 diameter pipe at 1/2 psi generates a force of 1.5 ounces. So the counter weight on the other side of the hinge line would not be all that much.

 

[Anonymous]

Geezus...

Redo your thinking. The pressure of 1 sq ft of 64lbs of water might be 1/2 psi, but that isn't what the 1/2 inch pipe will be feeling. Area of the half inch pipe is is about .2 square inches.. so you'll have closer to 300 psi..

 

[Anonymous]

What, noone wanted to pick holes in my drawing?


The problem would be that the vacuum created would of course suck the balloon in

 

[WRASSER]

Hey Matt, ever have a waterbed? they have those eductors to take the water out of the water bed using the sink facet to create a vacuum. you could appie this with apump to get your surge

 

[Anonymous]

Seems like Galleon got some spa venturi or something to get enough suction to lift enough head, but I'm skpetical of the pump lasting long.

 

[Anonymous]

I think I've written 5 times now that the suction problem is not an issue. I guess it's a long thread to read.


If you place an airline inside the intake of a pump it will suck air like crazy. Much stronger that the suction of a venturi.

The issue is the dump. I'm pretty sure it can be very easily done with a solenoid that wouldn't ever come in contact with the salwater. I've just sort of dropped trying to build this thing for now--I've got a new 50 in my kitchen to finish plumbing

 

[Anonymous]

What do you mean you have dropped it?

That is not cool man, I don't care what you have going on in your life YOU MUST BUILD IT!!!!


























Cause you see I am too whipped to actually be able to build any of the crap I want to, so I am living through you....

 

[Anonymous]

Well I guess I'm going to have to go ahead and do this thing

I thought that a sprinkler valve may work to open up a large enough hole to allow air in. I'll have to wait until Monday to see if it works.

The diagram is below. The weird thing on the top right is the sprinkler valve, which would have to be on a wavemaker or other on/off timer. Air gets sucked out continuously through the airline at the top left, connected to the intake of a pump.

 

[Anonymous]

Can't wait to see some pics man!

Woot!

 

[Anonymous]

Do not connect the air intake to to the pump intake. There is a better way to do it that does not cavitate the pump (bad).

 

[Anonymous]

Do not connect the air intake to to the pump intake. There is a better way to do it that does not cavitate the pump (bad).

Dude, I love your cryptic posts!!!

 

[Anonymous]

Do not connect the air intake to to the pump intake. There is a better way to do it that does not cavitate the pump (bad).

Seriously, Chris, can you just tell me how to do it?

Why would it be so bad for the pump? Isn't this what some skimmer pumps are doing in effect anyway? But I wouldlike to know a better way if there is one.

 

[Anonymous]

If I wanted to use a pump, and I did not want the air going through past the impeller, I would connect a Reversed Y on the outlet and hook the airline to that.

Would that work? I have no idea, but it sounds good

 

[Anonymous]

An eductor. Sort of. Yeah that should work. Okay, but this isn't really the issue with this thing. Sucking the water up is easy, getting it to fall is the complicated part. The sprinkler valve doesn't work. Not enough of a pressure differential. Basically I just need a solenoid that will open up a 1" hole very quickly.

 

[Anonymous]

You could use your finger

as long as you have a couch and phone TV and computer nearby you should be good to go!