Ecotech Marine Vortech propeller pump

[Len]

I am not a republican! I believe in free markets though.

GD,
The pump comes with an outboard driver box that allows for speed control. This will eventually also allow for advanced wavemaking controls via a seperate (wireless) controller to be sold as an accessory. It's pretty much what you get with Tunze, but easier to use and more advanced.

 

[GSchiemer]

Obviously there is R&D built into the product price Len... but as I have already stated, I'm talking about the silly mark-up on the product because of the hype, or customer perception, or Aston Martin Effect :wink:

The only "silly" thing is continuing to debating this topic. You can't intelligently comment on or criticise their margin or "markup" because you have no idea of their costs. Remember that this is a small company with a small product run and a large R&D bill to recoup. Perhaps as time goes by and they become more efficient and experience some success, the price will come down accordingly.

It's also "silly" to state that any pre-hype or discussion impacted the initial MSRP. I can more effectively argue that it caused them to lower the initial MSRP since many people participating in this and other threads expressed concern about affordability.

Lastly, they have the right to set the MSRP at any level, and no one is twisting anyone's arm to buy these things. If you can't afford it or think that there are better alternatives in the market, then don't buy it. That's why companies like Chevrolet and Taam (Rio/Seio) exist.

Greg

 

[GSchiemer]

Attn Greg
If you have access to a 6100 and can do a direct comparision for your upcoming review, that would awesome. If you have a wattmeter to test the accuracy of each manufacturer's statement re: electrical usage, that would be even better

Yeah, I have one of those wattmeters. I just have to dig it out from the back of the garage. I also know enough people with Streams to do some comparison testing. Ideally, I'd like to alternately run them side by side in the same aquarium.

Greg

 

[Entacmaea]

"I can more effectively argue that it caused them to lower the initial MSRP since many people participating in this and other threads expressed concern about affordability"

Exactly :wink: Why do you think I am ranting?

I think the debate has been fun and informative. While some of the opinions expressed you might think are silly, no one is in a position to say the debate itself is silly. That would be innapropriate.

 

[ReefTiger]

I have an actual question for the beta testers:

Would this put out too much flow for a soft coral tank? I have LPS and leathers in a 5 foot tank with some corals being close to the edges where I'd place the pump. I watched the video and it sure seemed like the flow may be too great or too fast. What do you guys think? Also, how wide a flow do you get as my tank is 18" deep and 24" tall.

Thanks!

 

[Anonymous]

I am not a republican! I believe in free markets though.

GD,
The pump comes with an outboard driver box that allows for speed control. This will eventually also allow for advanced wavemaking controls via a seperate (wireless) controller to be sold as an accessory. It's pretty much what you get with Tunze, but easier to use and more advanced.

So.. - In other words.. In order to have one at one end of the tank, another at the other end of the tank and a controller for wave making, you're probably talking somewhere in the neighborhood of $1000??

$300 (pump) + $300 (pump) + $400 (hypothetical, for the controller..)

That about right?

If so.... - 8O - Good God, I need to get out of this hobby now, its for people FAR, FAR richer than I apparently..

 

[Len]

Hey Reeftiger,

If the soft corals are directly in the path of the Vortech and under a foot away, the pump will probably blow the soft coral consistently to one side. Ideally, you don't want your corals directly in the path of any pumps, Vortech, Tunze, Maxijet, or otherwise. You should position the pump to blow above, below, or to the sides of your corals if they are in close proximity. The Vortech circulation after a foot or so is very wide and has reasonably low velocity. My soft corals and LPS on the other side of the tank exhibit a very "natural" slow swaying.

 

[Len]

$300 (pump) + $300 (pump) + $400 (hypothetical, for the controller..)

That about right?

If so.... - 8O - Good God, I need to get out of this hobby now, its for people FAR, FAR richer than I apparently..

I don't think the controller will be close to that hypothetical price, but I really don't know. Yes, it will cost a good chunk of money to get a fully tricked out circulation system, same as Streams. There are certainly cheaper alternatives that work pretty well. As mentioned, you don't need these expensive gadgets to succeed. They offer a better solution then standard pumps and wavemakers, albeit at a higher pricer.

 

[Anonymous]

They offer a better solution then standard pumps and wavemakers, albeit at a higher pricer.

True... - I may wear tye-dyes on occasion and still listen to the Grateful Dead, but I'm far from being a communist hippie..

It would just be nice if they could make up their margins in volume instead of having to hit so hard in low volume like Tunze has for years now. - I've drooled over Tunzes for a long time but at that type of cost it just doesn't make sense to me and probably never will, even after the kids are out of the house and I have quite a bit more flexible income.

I don't know.. - Thanks for the info though!

 

[Len]

You know, I'm not so sure stuff like Tunze (and potentially vortechs) sell in very low volumes (comparative to maxijets, no doubt). I think worldwide demand actually exceeds their production capacity. It's really hard to fault a manufacturer for trying to match supply and demand equalibrium.

 

[leftovers]

They do so to the tune of AT LEAST 1-3 degrees F.

I think it is totally irrelevant; there are far more other pumps/lights in an aquarium to worry about as they heat the water up more and use more power.
I doubt most are really not going to worry about a stream 6100 using 10 more watts or so compared to a vortech.

To be far the vortech needs to be compared with a 6100 as they are similar in flow.

Each submersible pump you add contributes heat to a tank. In the case of Tunze's by removing 1-3 degrees of heating you save yourself quite a bit of money and energy. Submersible pumps directly heat the tank.. their heat has no other place to go. Lighting heat is easily vented and dispersed so that never will all 100% of your lamps heat affect the tank.

Each sumbersible pump i remove from a tank directly reduces that heat. And due the size of the Tunze and it typcial 24x7 run time you can dramatically reduce heat up time and even reduce it to the point that your chiller/cooling system runs significantly less.

so yes you MAY have other soruces of heat for you tank but each submersible pump you remove eliminates that source and 1-3 degrees of heating when you are trying to maintain a narrow temperature window is never insignificant.

 

[reefreef]

Each submersible pump you add contributes heat to a tank. In the case of Tunze's by removing 1-3 degrees of heating you save yourself quite a bit of money and energy. Submersible pumps directly heat the tank.. their heat has no other place to go. Lighting heat is easily vented and dispersed so that never will all 100% of your lamps heat affect the tank.

Each sumbersible pump i remove from a tank directly reduces that heat. And due the size of the Tunze and it typcial 24x7 run time you can dramatically reduce heat up time and even reduce it to the point that your chiller/cooling system runs significantly less.

so yes you MAY have other soruces of heat for you tank but each submersible pump you remove eliminates that source and 1-3 degrees of heating when you are trying to maintain a narrow temperature window is never insignificant

Sounds all good in theory but in reality 40-50w here or there in an average size tank is insignificant.

 

[Len]

A single pump with no controller???

I sure hope not,

you get a pump and a driver box to turn the speed down,(same as a stream) all other items are additional like controllers, battery backup.
That makes the vortech pretty expensive as i thought you also got the additional items with the $345 cost.

The tunze pumps are imported so you have all the additional costs unlike the vortech which is made in the USA.

Hopefully it will drop to a more reasonable price of $300.

I understand and agree to an extent the Vortech is expensive, but I'm continually perplexed why you keep justifying Tunze prices and advocating their products.

 

[reefreef]

but I'm continually perplexed why you keep justifying Tunze prices and advocating their products.

Just trying to bring balance and pointing out facts. I am not trying to justify the tunze prices/products etc.

I think the vortech will be great as the main appeal to me is the size.

 

[Len]

cetled, it's not facts but opinions re: pricing. There's a stark difference. You've repeatedly stated the Vortech is too expensive but have not once stated the same opinion for comparably priced Streams (rather, you've tried to justify their prices because they are "German engineered" and imported).

Hopefully the Vortech prices drop down below $300 in the future. But right now, for the same price, I personally can't find much reason I'd buy a Stream. As I said before, the Stream is a very fine product, but the Vortech is simply better for the same price IMHO. We should all be excited about this, even Stream owners It's healthy to have this type of competition. I bet Tunze will find a way to up the ante. And eventually, this competition and tech advancement may bring prices down. In the end, we all benefit.

 

[reefreef]

I also agree that the stream is expensive for what they are. basically a powerhead.

But then some of price reflection is to do with taxes, freight which the vortech does not have to pay.

 

[reefreef]

Here is a video of the vortech in action.
http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/melevsreef/video/vortech_flow.wmv


One thing i noticed is that it looks like the vortech has to be well below the water line otherwise it will suck air. not sure if this will be a issue for some who like the pumps higer up.

 

[Len]

The vortech only needs to be about 3-4" below the water to suck in air. I know from experience. People like to put it lower for more even distribution.

But then some of price reflection is to do with taxes, freight which the vortech does not have to pay.

I'd rather pay the same money for more innovation versus taxes and freight

 

[reefreef]

I'd rather pay the same money for more innovation versus taxes and freight

A bit like: Unsubstantiated rumors do not serve anyone's interest.

 

[Len]

:?: