- Status
Aerosmith":1hlu1awr said:
More or less
Someone applied for a permit to maintain federally protected corals, for a long term study/years, to take place in a warehouse they could be kicked out of at any time.
And no one checked that story out prior to giving the permit.
Aerosmith":3irzfu3n said:
No. Eric applies for a permit. He gets it. He collects a bunch of corals and takes them to Reef Savers, exactly where he said he was going to. Everything is going fine for about 9 months. To the best of my knowledge, none of the corals or fragments was ever sold and none were known to have been contaminated, but there is a possibility they could have been exposed to Pacific corals. Reef Savers is investing a lot of time and money into this project which is becoming a money pit. They start to neglect that system(s). Eric takes over their care. Things continue to go badly between Eric and Reef Savers leading to him eventually being locked out. Eric notifies his superiors at CDHC. Word trickles back to the sanctuary. The sanctuary recalls the corals. They eventually get corals back. The man that gets the corals afterward housed them with Tridacnid clams because he can't be absolutely sure they were not already contaminated and because he does not have room anywhere else.
There are some other side plots which I find interesting, but I am not at liberty to share. Sorry.
StevenPro":3kcl9e3i said:
You're spinning it again.
You do not notify the CDHC.
The CDHC did not issue Eric the permit.
The permit was issued to Eric, personally, not the CDHC.
Eric knows that, Eric knows he and only he is responsible for maintaining that permit.
Eric knows to call his permitting office, the Sanctuary, immediately if there are any changes that would effect his permit.
He did not.
I will give you a few hints. As a law student, what would it mean to you if you were trying to retrieve property from someone else. You want to get that property back. But, whomever gave you the property in the first place has now revoked your "ownership". How would that complicate getting an order from a judge to reclaim that property?
Also, if you really care about these corals and it is not just about Eric, I would have thought you would have looked into what ultimately became of these corals, which Craig reports as a little under 500 pieces? Were they used for research? Were they relocated back to the ocean? Or, ?
Also, if you really care about these corals and it is not just about Eric, I would have thought you would have looked into what ultimately became of these corals, which Craig reports as a little under 500 pieces? Were they used for research? Were they relocated back to the ocean? Or, ?
StevenPro":1wtmr7i3 said:
Hmm... let me think about that.
When I read the last few documents, I thought it was more or less "settled" that the corals were going to other researchers. Until you just mentioned this possibility that something else happened to them, I didn't have any reason to question that. But now that you're hinting something else may have happened, I will look into it...
StevenPro":27hhr64s said:
Permits are not issued to organizations, they are issued to individuals only.
When I get a speeding ticket, I do not mail the check to my boss. I notify the place that gave me the ticket, and send it there.
The organization is not responsible for maintaining that permit, the individual that was issued the permit, that has their name on it, is responsible only.
Everyone issued a permit knows that, and knows that they are the only ones responsible for maintaining that permit.
Billy wrote to Eric
"I am amazed that you have not offered some solution to the current situation, regarding the disposition of the corals that are held under your federal permit. Consider my last email as a formal request in writing for you to return the corals gathered in the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary under the permit issued to you September 14, 2004. I am exercising my authority under permit SPECIAL CONDITION 1 which states: The FKNMS Superintendent may request in writing that coral specimens, or portions thereof, be returned to the Sanctuary for restoration, research, or other purposes."
StevenPro":1t3tfwvh said:
Steven, this seems like an attempt to distract from the question of whether or not Eric was required to fulfill his federally mandated obligation of notifying the permitting office about a change in conditions in the corals that he was personally issued a permit for.
However, to answer your question:
I should think it would substantially smooth the way, legally. After all, you present the judge a legal, federal order that property must be returned to them which a third party is denying you access to and I can't imagine a judge is going to ignore it.
"Your honor, not only is the defendent keeping me from my personal property, but he is preventing me from returning the property of the american people, overseen by the United States navy, as I have legally been ordered to do."
I can't really see that raising any roadblocks, to be honest.
StevenPro":3obu40u6 said:
Steven, this is total BS.
Either you are trying to spin it, or someone told you that and they are trying to spin and you believe it.
These corals are not owned by Eric, never were, never will be.
These corals are public natural resources, owned by the US public, and mandated to be protected by the federal government.
If someone claimed personal ownership of the Grand Canyon, what would you say?
Just to make this point clear again: the FKNMS always makes it clear that they want to be updated on the status of the corals. This is why the permits themselves state so emphatically and explicitly that periodic progress reports are REQUIRED... and required to be sent to more than one person.
And in fact, it's partly on the basis of those required progress reports that I filed these FOIA requests. Those progress reports are considered government documents and thus should be accessible through FOIA request.
And in fact, it's partly on the basis of those required progress reports that I filed these FOIA requests. Those progress reports are considered government documents and thus should be accessible through FOIA request.
cjdevito":ktxcfk52 said:
Actually, I was not speaking to that point at all. Eric was not an employee of NOAA, FKNMS, or US Navy. He had at one time a permit for those corals from FKNMS, but they revoke it. He then no longer has posession nor "ownership" of those corals.
'Excuse me judge, this stuff was once considered mine, but is no longer, but I would still like you to order the people who currently have it to turn it over to me so I can give it the to rightful owners.'
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