Big tanks in smallish NYC apartments -lots of questions and issues

[memito]

Hello everyone. I am new to this site and am glad that I found it. I have read through the first 33 pages of threads and everyone seems very nice and knowledgeable. It is great to have a ?local? reef posting board!

In any case, I am thinking about setting up a 120-180+ reef tank some time in the near future but will be doing so in a RENTED apartment (exactly where, I still have to determine as well).

My question:

How have those of you that also rent apartments in NYC dealt with given the weight and volume of water in these tanks?

The issue(s) as I see them and other questions:

1. Leases sometimes prohibit "pets". Now usually that just means "no dogs" but probably includes such less popular critters such as lizards, snakes, rats, rabbits and other exotic animals that might creep out of the apartment at night. Obviously most aquarium fish (other than the occasional adventurous octopus) stay in the tank and won't bother other building mates. Now, legally fish probably would be considered pets but just not with the noise/threat issues that dogs might have.

2. Leases occasionally prohibit "water-filled furniture" - I am assuming that an aquarium would be considered a piece of furniture, but then again, would a bird cage or dog cage be considered "furniture"? When I signed my present lease there was no specific mention of ?fish tanks? or ?aquariums?, though I think there would be given that a water bed and a tank are quite different.

I am pretty certain that most landlords, building managers and ESPECIALLY Co-Op boards would go bonkers if they knew that 55, 125 or 215 gallons of water was precariously sitting on top of one of their floors. The threat of structural damage from tank leaks/breaks, not to mention the increased fire risks related to running a fish tank, would scare the dickens out of them. (And some think that dogs over 30lbs are a problem.) Fortunately, their ignorance seems to be our bliss.

3. Renters insurance ? would it cover broken tanks and related damage if they turned out to be prohibited via the ?no water-filled furniture? clause in a lease? I am assuming not, but am not certain.

Do any of you have renters insurance that specifically covers tanks and tank related damage?

Solutions?

Ok, now that I have run through my concerns, here is my plan to mitigate some of these issues.

I figure that in order to have a bigger and heavier tank, I have to either live in a basement apartment in a brownstone or in a modern building with concrete floors (that should be able to support a ton plus of water weight).

What are your thoughts on concrete floors, especially given that many tank owners place large tanks on wooden floors all over the world?

I additionally plan to live in a building that allows pets hoping that such a policy would make management a bit friendlier to keeping fish.

As for the ?water filled furniture? issue, maybe I just have to find a lease that doesn?t mention it.

Ok. Sorry about the marathon post? I just wanted to get everything out there so I could hear your responses and comments on the topic.

Thanks in advance!

 

[DEEPWATER]

as far are no pets .my lease says the same thing no pets ,but when signing the lease ,i told the lanlord of the building that i had a 90 gal reef tank and a parrot ,he was cool with it ,building i live in is 140 units ,he also asked question on the tank and bird ,
suppot of tank ,,i dont think you should havea prob ,unless your apt is made of paper beams,,lol,,i have 90 gals in the corner of my living room ,and im on the 6th fl ,,,

renter insurance ,,i would belive if your lease says no water filled furniture ,it would not cover ,as far as renter insurance covering the tank if it break crack ,or whatever ,,i cant say ,,srry

 

[DEEPWATER]

Welcome to MR MIMTO

 

[Reefer420]

My fathers friend had a large (500g) tank in a rented apartment- I know it was a pain the the a$$ to move and he had to hire a structural engineer to come in to make certain the floor could support the weight. I'm not sure if that was a requirement of the building though.

 

[House of Laughter]

Memito,

Welcome to Manhattanreefs

I don't think renters insurance will cover the damage to your tank, unless you can prove negligence on behalf of the landlord, and that is a difficult proposition.

I think if you are only thinking about a 120 or 180, you won't have weight problems - 500g though, well, that's obvious.

I think a fish tank can be considered water filled furniture - I am sure that clause was meant for water beds, but the law can easily read a fish tank as a piece of water filled furniture.

More often than not, those "No Pets" clauses are meant for dogs and cats as they are destructive and smelly - birds can be smelly and noisy, but usually people get away with having them given the prior statement about dogs and cats.

I would think most landlords don't get it about fish weight and bet the co-op boards wouldn't have a clue about potential water damage or burning down of the building due to electric - those that are that concerned would probably require an umbrella coverage of some sort.

Hope that helps.

House

 

[Hitsnorth]

My lease says no pets so I just asked the landlord when i was signing my lease and it wasnt a problem. As far as structure support(I have a 120g) I have concrete under my floor so its not going through that.

My renters insurance covers my tank and water damage it causes. I made sure that if my tank exploded and it caused major damage I would be covered. It does not cover living animals though. Although I have heard you can say the corals were decorative and get reimbursed for them.

 

[ShaunW]

WELCOME TO MANHATTANREEFS!

In the beginning, one of my greatest fears was the weight of the tank on the floor. I have a 120 gallon tank with a 30 gallon sump in a brownstone apt on the 4th floor. I have it positioned perpendicular to the floor joists against the wall (if it goes through it would be due to shearing - something that requires much more weight then straining). One thing that I thought about after setting the tank up is putting it on a long wooden plank to spread the weight across many more floor joists, i.e. instead of the 3 or 4 it is on, extend it to 5-6 joists.

However, I have a friend who is an engineer and another that is an arctitect (sp?). Both say that the weight should be OK but that I shouldn't have any big dance parties ( :lol: ) in front of the tank, nor add much more to the weight. The tank has been up for 8 years, so I figure it must be OK!

 

[jhale]

memito Welcome to Manhattan Reefs! If you read 33 pages you realize we all know eachother and can get kind of silly, sometimes But we all take our reefs and other pets seriously.

Your questions are similar to the ones I had when I set up my 120 in my rented apartment. I had the unique ability to actually see what was under my floor. The building was gutted, with me in it, and I was able to see the massive old wood 12"x16" joists holding up my floor My tank is spanning about three of them and is also against a load bearing wall. So it depends on the building structure.
As for landlord approval I never asked and never really cared. I know the floor will hold the tank up. I had a 55 gallon tank in the previous spot which my building managers would come over and admire. They also made provisions for me when they upgraded the electrical in my building, they made sure I always had power, so I guess no one cared about the tank.

Now my neighbor who helped me carry the 120 up the four flights was concerned the tank would not fall through the floor onto his 50" plasma
I promised him it would not. For the first three weeks though I was nervous every time I went home, i kept picturing the fire dept. in front of my building.

As for the insurance you'll have to ask the company about that, i believe from posts I've read on RC that there is a rider that can be attached to your policy that will cover damage from or by the tank.

As for placing a tank on concrete floors, go for it. those floor's are solid, you could put any size tank you like on them.

again welcome to manhattan reefs,

Jonathan

 

[marrone]

Before getting a tank I would definetly make sure you can have it and clear it with your landlord as you don't want to get one and then have to get rid of it when the landloard finds out.

Also you want to make sure that the building and floors can handle the tank and all it's weight. Alot of places in Manhattan the floors aren't the best and they're not level also. This may cause a tank or stand to twist and eventually break. A # of people who live in the city have this type of problem and because of it have gone to a smaller tank or a # of smaller tanks.

I have 2 - 260gal tanks side by side and the building and floor is strong enough to easily support it but I didn't want to add any more weight so I didn't place a sump under each tank. Also if your going to use a sump you need to set it up so that in case some thing happens with the over flow or pump you don't have a floor.

 

[memito]

Thanks a lot for all of your responses.

I agree with the apparent general consensus that many NYC apartments can support a 120 or 180 gallon tank ? though there are obviously issues with levelness and potential micro fractures (which could lead to tank failure).

I also believe that ?no pets? generally does refer to dogs, cats and birds that could cause some sort of disruption in the apartment building.

Now, I will be honest that I am somewhat reluctant to come out and tell a landlord that I want to put a 180 gal tank in their apartment building, but I agree that it would be the most prudent move. (Evidently the rental market has tightened significantly over the past year and many landlords are picky enough here in Manhattan about who they let into their buildings.) I presently have a 75 gal fresh water planted tank that I will mention and see how they respond. I don?t think they will blink an eye simply because they don?t link a larger tank to leakage and other catastrophic events.

It?s funny, but I am getting to the point where other than the getting the space I need, I am completely focused on finding an apartment that will allow and whose floors will support large tanks. If anybody knows of Manhattan apartments that might fit this bill, please feel free to give me a heads up. Thanks!

Marrone,

I hope you don?t mind me asking you a question or two about your 260s? What are their dimensions and where did you get them? My ideal scenario is to set up a large FOWLR tank and then eventually set up a reef tank as well ? I was thinking of a 6x2x2.5 FOWLR (210 RR gal?) Oceanic and a 180 RR Oceanic reef tank.

One of the things I was worried about is space ? not only because the size of the tanks, but all of the associated tanks (Q-tank(s), refugium and potential frag tank). How do you manage these space issues in a NYC apartment? (Unless you are lucky enough to have a huge place which solves a lot of general apartment issues )

Thank you!

 

[marrone]

Marrone,

I hope you don?t mind me asking you a question or two about your 260s? What are their dimensions and where did you get them? My ideal scenario is to set up a large FOWLR tank and then eventually set up a reef tank as well ? I was thinking of a 6x2x2.5 FOWLR (210 RR gal?) Oceanic and a 180 RR Oceanic reef tank.

The tank is a Clarity plus that I got from a place in Chicago that was called Water Werks. They basically was an agent for Clarity plus and you just placed the order through them. They changed their name a couple of times, the last being Aquarium Source and I think they closed down for good. There is a local dealer, or use to be, that sell Clarity plus acrylic tanks other wise if your looking for an acrylic tank there a good place out in California.

The Tank, from the inside lip, measure 72"Lx24"Wx36'H and is 3/4" acrylic.

 

[Dace]

I have 2 - 260gal tanks side by side
DAMN, and i thought i was living la vida loca with 1 180gal

 

[memito]

Marrone,

Thanks for the info on the tanks. They sound great.

I would love to get a similar tall tank for a FOWLR set up. Such a high tank would make it the perfect room divider.

 

[marrone]

Marrone,

Thanks for the info on the tanks. They sound great.

I would love to get a similar tall tank for a FOWLR set up. Such high would make it the perfect room divider.

You need to take into account that with higher tanks the weight from the water will be alot more concentrated as opposited to a longer tank where the weight is spread out more. Also the glass will mostly likely be thicker also making the tank heavier.

 

[joseney21]

Welcome to MR Memito!!!

i think everyone covered all your questions pretty well. pretty much GO FOR IT!!!
the floors can definitely handle the weight, think of a hooky party for high schoolers.
definitely more weight than a 180g.

there are apts for rent everywhere in NYC, but let me point out the ones i was thinking about moving into.Bridge apts in washington heights, the one right above the cross bronx when going or coming from jersey.the best of the four buildings is the one closest to jersey on wadsworth, less 2 & 3 BR units= less people. elec and gas is included, definitely a plus if you're thinking about keeping a well lit reef tank.

 

[memito]

You need to take into account that with higher tanks the weight from the water will be alot more concentrated as opposited to a longer tank where the weight is spread out more. Also the glass will mostly likely be thicker also making the tank heavier.

Very true. I have started to look at acrylic tanks for a FOWLR tank. I was checking out the Tenecor site to get a feel for sizes and prices.

I don't know if I could reach beyond 24" for a reef tank but would be willing to do 30" or more for a FOWLR tank. Lots of people seem to like using glass for reef tanks due to all of the scratches but glass seems to begin to reach size limitations at 200 gals +.

Thinking about taking it to the next level (over 200gals) is adding another diamension to this process.

Thanks again for your input and help.

 

[joseney21]

btw, those apt buildings i mentioned have concrete floors....

 

[memito]

Welcome to MR Memito!!!

i think everyone covered all your questions pretty well. pretty much GO FOR IT!!!

Yeah... I really do appreciate everyone's comments and responses.

Thanks for the apartment info. I will include that area in my upcoming search.

 

[jhale]

why would you live anywhere but downtown

 

[ShaunW]

why would you live anywhere but downtown

Because of the beautiful view, .