Please help dead fish

[Rosa25]

Hi everyone, Im new to the site and will like to get some help from u guys.

I have a 50 gallon tank set up since july 2006, after 3 months I started adding fish (clownfish), scallop, skunk cleaner shrimp, snails, crabs, all one by one.
Just 2 weeks ago I bought a blue hippo tang, after one week he started scratching and had white spots on him, I took him to the lfs store they told he had ick and told me to let them keep it for 4 days. After 4 days I pick him up acclimated him and put him back in my tank.
The very next day he was sratching again I went to the petco store and told them my problem , an employee gave me coppersafe, maracyn two, aquarium salt to put in the tank and told me to change the tank temp from 79 to 86 slowly , I finish that process at 5 am yesterday so yesterday in the evening I added the medication and took out of the filter the carbon as instructed byt the petco guy. This morning my fish seem fine but around 2 hours ago all of them died (I still have crabs and snails alive)I imediatly checked the levels of amonia 0, nitrates 0, alk 300, th 300, but ph was pretty low. So I added a powder that I had to boost it up. My question is do I have to start all over again or is there something I can do to save my live rock and sand what should I do please help!!!!!!!!
Right now I have a 192 compact flourent light, canister filter, 2 aqua clear power heads, on my 50 gallon tank, with 80 pounds of live rock and 60 pounds live sand. Please help me with my tank I am heart broken I cried so much that tank is very special to me and losing the fishes has been horrible for me.If anybody knows when will I be able to add new fish to my tank? The water is couldy and green.

Johanna Rosa

 

[scarf_ace1981]

please tell me you didn't add the copper to your display tank? you are supposed to qt and treat fish in a separate tank. i'm sorry you had to go through this. don't listen to any advice given to you @ a LFS.

we are here to help you. i don't knoow if the rocks, tank and sand are salvageable, maybe someone w/ more knowledge can chime in.

 

[cooksalot]

hi johanna..i'm a newbie and can't really help you with your questions, but i wanted to let you know that i'm so sorry you lost your fish there are so many helpful, friendly people here...i'm sure someone will be able to help you.

 

[Rosa25]

Thanks. Yes I did add the copper to the main tank I dont have a qt tank, so that killed all the fish not the ph level? The petco guy told me to put it in my tank , so my live rock will die? Please someone help !!!!!!!!!!! I dont want to loose whats left of my tank please!!!!!!!

 

[fritz]

Since your crabs and snails are still alive you probably didn't add as much toxic copper as you thought. (Which is good)
Copper is the equivalent to Chemotherapy, yes it kills ich but it almost kills everything else too. What survives the copper treatment will survive ich. What Scarf meant was that copper gets into everything and it's very hard to get it out. When you treat your tank with copper it will get into the silicone in your tank, the sand, the rocks etc. Over the next weeks, months, years, it will slowly leach out back into the water. Copper is toxic and poisonous to fish and invertebrates (and ich.)

As I mentioned since your snails and crabs are still alive it might not be so bad. I would recomend the following:

1. Never step foot in petco again. I can't stress that enough. Generally their employees have zero training in marine animals. Their saltwater systems ALWAYS carry ich, every store.
2. Should you be in the street and receive free advise on how to solve a problem from someone in a petco T-Shirt see item # 1.

I would also do a HUGE water change in your tank. As big as you can manage. You can get a Rubbermaid bin at Home Depot or Lowes for $8 that will hold 20 gallons of water. Mix your salt in there and add to your tank. Honestly if I were you I would keep the temperature at 84 degrees for the next 45 days and I would not add another fish. You want the ich to hatch and not be able to find any fish to latch on to, starve and die. To 100% starve every last ich animal in your tank, you're looking at 45 days of no fish.

It's not as bad as it sounds, without fish to eat the animals living in and on your Live Rock your tank will still be very much alive. In fact you will begin to see all manner of algae and animals that you never knew were in your tank! By the end of the 45 days there will be things crawling and climbing all over the place. Then you can add fish in again and it will be a very happy and stable reef. If you were to add fish before that there is a great likelihood that they too will become infected with ich and die.

Oh and feel free to add some carbon back in the mix quickly to get out everything that petco had you add. For future reference I've never seen any medication that was truly "Reef safe", the best remedy is prevention.

Sorry for you loss.

 

[inkblue]

sorrY about youR fiShieS...

 

[Rosa25]

I feel so terrible my family keeps telling me to stop crying its not a family member , but all the time, money and effort I have put in to this tank to lose it all is heart breaking I had to fish them out of there when I saw my dead skunk cleaner it was horrible. I guess I have to learn from this and keep going my family thought I was going to take the tank apart but I just hope I can fix it an keep it safe for my fish.

Question should I stop adding the maracyn two, I was supposed to use it for 4 more days? How often should I change the carbon during the 45 days with no fish? How big of a water change should I make? How about lighting schedule for the next 45 days?

By the way a lot of bristleworms were coming out of the rock and when the level of ph when up they disapear is this a good sign?

 

[Hotwheels]

Well, said Fritz. I'm so sadden by your loss Rosa. Please update your tank progress as time goes by. In the future post any questions the minute you have them or use the search section to find a thread of the same question you may have. It was more likely the shock and rapid changes that contributed to your loss. Our aquatic friends love stability.
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/fishdiseases/a/aa102797_2.htm
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/ich.htm

Here's a link to help you out in the future. MRers love to read and promote it.
Good luck with your tank.

 

[ellebelle]

Poor fishies.

 

[Domboski]

I would finish the Maracyn 2 treatment. It should be ok. I treated seahorses with Maracyn and maracyn 2 and while feeding them baby brine, they all grew to adults in the qurantine tank including a rediculous sprout of pods. It can't hurt to finish the treatment.

 

[Hotwheels]

I would also do a HUGE water change in your tank. As big as you can manage. You can get a Rubbermaid bin at Home Depot or Lowes for $8 that will hold 20 gallons of water. Mix your salt in there and add to your tank. Honestly if I were you I would keep the temperature at 84 degrees for the next 45 days and I would not add another fish. You want the ich to hatch and not be able to find any fish to latch on to, starve and die. To 100% starve every last ich animal in your tank, you're looking at 45 days of no fish.

Multilpe water changes during the 45 days change the filter elements now and before you and any fish....

Sorry about your loss.... Good luck

 

[jhale]

Johanna,

sorry for your loss and the bad advice you got at the pet store.
I wish you had found us before you treated the tank.

Fritz broke it down well for what you have to do next.

If you use the same tank and rocks you'll have to take the copper
into account when you stock the tank next. It is toxic to many reef
animals in the smallest amounts.

One thought I have is keeping the tank as is and dedicating it as a quarantine and hospital tank for the future. It's a good idea to have one set up for reasons you now know. To keep the cost of an other set up down look in our for sale section. things are sold and traded here for much less than buying new, there is even a freebie thread.

good luck and don't hesitate to ask questions.

 

[Rosa25]

Thank u all. I will do a 50 % water change tomorrow and then a weekly 10 to 15 %. I will get new carbon tomorrow too. I will definetly wait the 45 days so my ich dies. I will finish the maracyn since its an antibiotic. Is the cloudy green water a side effect of the copper? And how about the ligthing on the tank should I keep it on, off less time more time?

 

[jhale]

the greenish blue water would be from the copper.

what's the point in using the maracyn there is nothing left in the tank to treat. and if it was ich why did the pet store recommend an anti-biotic?

take a look at these articles while you wait for the ich to die out.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.php
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Rosa25,
Sorry for your lost.

what's the point in using the maracyn there is nothing left in the tank to treat. and if it was ich why did the pet store recommend an anti-biotic?

take a look at these articles while you wait for the ich to die out.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.php
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html

That petco person may be thinking of insuring the ich bites will not develop into bacterial infection but I AGREED that it is wrong to treat antibiotics because the syms of bacterial infections have not been described.

For the purpose of not to let bacteria to develope resistance to antibiotics, we should always complete the treatment cycle of ANY antibiotics(if done in a QT). However, in this case, to complete the treatment, it will kill most of the bacteria in the system. That is the whole system need to be restarted which is also very hard on ROSA25. So, I would also not to complete the treatment.

 

[nyumpa]

i would also run some POLY-FILTER along with the carbon
to make sure the copper is reduced. the color of the poly-filter
will let you know if copper is present.

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

The copper is gonna get into those seals and then leach out into the tank slowly, and may kill future inverts, just keep that in mind. Always Quarantine fish in a seperate tank if you plan on dosing copper it will be better for you in the long run.

 

[Rosa25]

Ok so I will not continue the antibiotic. Can anybody tell me about the lighting schedule since it wont have any fish in it?

Since Im changing 50 % of the water is a new cycle going to start?

 

[scarf_ace1981]

no need for light if you have no coral or fish.

one other thing, please don't buy anymore scallops.:biggrin:they don't live long in our systems

 

[ellebelle]

Well, but doesn't the light help for anything living on the live rock (fan worms, brittle stars, etc.)? I assume some of that might still be alive if she still has some crabs and snails (for now). Certainly there's no need for a long light cycle, but 4-6 hours per day couldn't hurt anything, could it?