Letter to Paul Holthus

[MaryHM]

I just sent this letter to Paul Holthus, executive director of MAC. Rarely do I go directly to him for information, but I think the issues that have been brought up over the last few days warrant a direct answer.

Paul,

I have some concerns that I want an official MAC answer to.

1. MAC brochures to hobbyists are claiming that the MAC program certifies fish caught with non-destructive methods (read: cyanide). How can MAC make this claim without having any type of independent testing in place?

2. MAC brochures to hobbyists are claiming that the MAC program certifies animals are coming from well-managed reefs. How can MAC make this claim if the CAMPs do not require a resource assessment to be in place prior to certification?

3. MAC certified fish are now hitting the retail market. Retailers are not being told that they are not allowed to advertise MAC certified fish unless their facility is certified. How does MAC plan to address this problem? Are there policies in place requiring this information to be distributed by MAC certified wholesalers?

4. What is preventing anyone from writing "MAC certified" on their tanks? If a retailer does this (either out of pure intention to defraud or from purchasing fish that are touted as MAC certified on their invoice), what action with MAC take?

Thank you for your time. With your permission I will make your answers public.

Sincerely,
Mary Middlebrook

 

[MaryHM]

Well, it's been over a week and still no response from Paul. I did speak to David Vosseler of MAC today. He said he thinks Paul is in San Francisco, so I'm going to assume that is the reason he has not replied to my email. David did ask me to send him links to the "psuedo-MAC" companies, and I have obliged. Here is the email I sent him today:

David,

Nice speaking with you today! Please know that although I do get upset at MAC, I'm rarely upset with you personally. I may come off like it sometimes, but it's just because I get so wound up about the whole MAC thing!

Here are the links I spoke about:

This one is from a hobbyist who says he's buying MAC fish in Boise, ID. Gee, I wonder who sold them the fish they are claiming to be certified???
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... genumber=1

This is a direct link to the store in Boise that claims to have MAC fish. Nice MAC logo and everything!
http://www.idahosaltwateremporium.com/AboutUs.html

This is another direct link to a hobbyist who is buying MAC fish in Tuscon, AZ. Again I wonder who sold them this fish?? (Of course you and I both know who did)

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... =certified

And here is a link from reefs.org- Pay attention to what "Rover" (aka Glenn who owns the Pet Store in Athens, GA) has to say about his MAC fish purchase.
http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=29984&start=0

This email has been made public at reefs.org. Any correspondence between me and MAC will always be made public, because I see no reason to hide it. However, anything personal we say to one another off the record will stay that way.

Looking forward to seeing you this summer!
Mary

 

[JennM]

Interesting - that Idaho website is still under construction and has some typos and grammatical bugaboos to sort out, but they do have a nifty little MAC logo.

Curiously, they called their MAC fish "qualified" not "certified" - is this a loophole?

I'm sure there is something illegal about using the service mark of MAC - clearly if the shop is not certified, then it would be using that logo without permission?

Oh I can see it now - this is just the tip of the iceberg...

Jenn

 

[MaryHM]

For those of you who keep your FAMA magazines, if you look back about a year ago a company called "Deep Blue Sea" marine was advertising with a nifty MAC logo too.

 

[JennM]

Yep I remember that but the URL for their website never worked.

Hmmm strange.

Jenn

 

[naesco]

I think I read that they were in the process of getting certified and jumped the gun on their advertising.
Good businessman; getting on the crest of the rising tide; recognizing that the demand for cyanide-free net caught fish is around the corner.

What are the rest of you doing? Or, are you waiting at the end of the line?

 

[dizzy]

Good businessman; getting on the crest of the rising tide; recognizing that the demand for cyanide caught fish is around the corner./quote]

So Wayne you saying the MAC fish will be cyanide caught? :roll:

 

[naesco]

Let me fix that

 

[JennM]

I think I read that they were in the process of getting certified and jumped the gun on their advertising.
Good businessman; getting on the crest of the rising tide; recognizing that the demand for cyanide-free net caught fish is around the corner.

What are the rest of you doing? Or, are you waiting at the end of the line?

Well, following the MAC procedure of putting the cart before the horse (oops did I say that out loud?)

What are the rest of us doing? I'm buying only from trusted sources EVERY week. I don't need a sticker to know quality.

The demand is not 'around the corner' as you put it - it is NOW.

Jenn

 

[MaryHM]

Wayne,

I replied to the Reef Central post about the Idaho store. NO store in Idaho is certified or even pursuing certification right now. NONE. That is according to David Vosseler of MAC. So you are wrong to say they are "good businessmen". They are using MAC as a marketing ploy, as will many.

This quote really pissed me off:

What are the rest of you doing? Or, are you waiting at the end of the line?

What am I doing? Well, let's see. I've only been bringing in strictly net caught fish for over 4 years. I refuse to mix a bunch of cyanide caught fish in with a few MAC species and call myself certified. I educate the public about industry issues and have been doing so for the past 4+ years- I dare say you wouldn't know half of what you think you know if I hadn't started this forum. I am fighting for true reform. I also dare say that MAC wouldn't even be concerned with getting a CDT up and running if me and a few others hadn't complained so publicly. For someone to imply that I'm doing nothing but standing at the end of the line because I'm not gung-ho about becoming MAC certified is extremely insulting to me personally and everything I have worked so hard to do.

 

[naesco]

Everybody knows that Mary.

 

[MaryHM]

Still no answer. I know it has been received by Paul. I think these are serious issues that should be addressed, not ignored.

 

[MaryHM]

Well, I never received a response to either of those emails. Let's try again. This was just sent.

Dear Paul,

I never received a response to the email I sent you a few weeks ago outlining some of my current concerns. In light of all of the heavy publicity MAC is putting out around the "Nemo" phenomenon, I thought I might better ask my questions again. We know there is already a problem with retailers falsely advertising their fish as MAC certified. Do you think that the current news articles MAC has been releasing is going to do anything to help this? There is basically no fish supply, yet you tell the general public to go and ask for MAC fish. Isn't it just a matter of time before the retailers decide that maybe they better say their fish are certified?? Here are my original questions. I would really appreciate an answer this time. I did remove question #1 about the CDT since you are supposedly working on that (today is the self-imposed deadline, correct?). Looking forward to hearing progress on that as well.

1. MAC brochures to hobbyists are claiming that the MAC program certifies animals are coming from well-managed reefs. How can MAC make this claim if the CAMPs do not require a resource assessment to be in place prior to certification?

2. MAC certified fish are now hitting the retail market. Retailers are not being told that they are not allowed to advertise MAC certified fish unless their facility is certified. How does MAC plan to address this problem? Are there policies in place requiring this information to be distributed by MAC certified wholesalers?

3. What is preventing anyone from writing "MAC certified" on their tanks? If a retailer does this (either out of pure intention to defraud or from purchasing fish that are touted as MAC certified on their invoice), what action with MAC take?

Thanks,
Mary Middlebrook

 

[Anonymous]

Mary,

Those are very good questions deserving a good response. Let's hope that MAC gives your letter the time it deserves.

-Lee

 

[Anonymous]

Mary

if you don't get a response within a reasonable time frame-mebbe some more of us should email him(or the bod of mac, or (horrors!) the grant organizations who provide(d) their funding now and in the past), directly, too?

 

[kylen]

Probably a very good idea. Money talks and this is part of the premise of MAC. If the hobbiest uses their dollars to vote for enviro-friendly fish to force LFS into accountability...why not the organizations that offer grants?

 

[Anonymous]

Still waiting for Pauls reply Mary?

 

[MaryHM]

Yep. :roll:

 

[John_Brandt]

Mary,

I can't say when, or if Paul will answer your letter. But it must be said that it is no mystery to him that you spend great amounts of time and energy being critical and accusational of MAC and the man himself. You have gone as far as to say that MAC is a fraud. Mary, you are not exactly a paying "customer" who has written a letter with legitimate complaints or questions. It only takes a brief moment to survey human nature to understand the answer to the question, "How come he don't call?"

MAC Certification "policing" issues in North America are the concern of David Vosseler. Rest assured, no misrepresentation of MAC Certified status will be tolerated by MAC.

 

[mkirda]

Mary,

But it must be said that it is no mystery to him that you spend great amounts of time and energy being critical and accusational of MAC and the man himself.

John,

No offense, but which is more important here:
The questions or the questioner?

Regardless of whom they came from, they still are valid questions on very important issues and as such, deserve answers.

Respectfully.
Mike Kirda