Letter to Paul Holthus

[naesco]

On the whole issue of certification, Quality Marine which is MAC certified should be able to sell certified fish to anyone IMO.

On the issue of answers from Paul on this forum, with the Nemo matters, CDT implementation which should happen soon and the training issue raised on this forum, to be quite honest, I don't know how anyone at MAC has the time to get involved with us. Let's face it, it would be one never ending black hole. We can't get out s**t together on reform on this forum and methinks we look the same as a group.
We should spend our time raising money as Mary is doing and monitoring the CDT implementation in a positive, helpful manner.

CDT CDT CDT CDT TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING & NETS (LOTS OF THEM)

 

[clarionreef]

a GOLD MINE IN ONLINE?
Mary,
Did you hear that?
There most certainly is not but is there were, it would suck away income from the brick and mortar retailer that is the critical mass of, the face to face of and the backbone of the industry.
Just cause you can ship lowball polyps and low metabolism coral frags doesn't mean you're going to do that well with the conveyor belt carriers door to door. Securing good fish isn't even that easy when you get to eyeball em yourself but going online with this is just another way to kill real retailers. Thats not only not nice, its going to hurt MAC certified stores...which will in turn delete the certification scheme of which you speak of.
Steve

 

[mkirda]

On the whole issue of certification, Quality Marine which is MAC certified should be able to sell certified fish to anyone IMO.

Why would you even need the MAC then, Naesco?
If there are no standards required for the local stores, how does that differ from reality now?
This sounds a lot like what existed before the MAC even existed...

Regards.
Mike Kirda
P.S. And as the end consumer of their product, I hope to god that MAC doesn't think of us as a 'black hole'. We are the reason why they exist.

 

[mkirda]

That is really disappointing.
I was hopefull that at least one of the major pet supply companies and on of the major online stores would certify.
{snip} There is a gold mine in cyanide free online sales.

8O 8O 8O
I would sooner have expected you smacking your lips on a nice, juicy Tang steak than have written the above, Naesco... :wink:

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

Naesco,
If we all unite and get our S#*@ together [ by that I assume you mean "selves"] then we will become an ...an...NGO!
Really, what you see as disorganization and pecking partying, I see as proof of poor advice and counsul from the MAC get go... and now seriously concerned people are giving the missing advice and consultation for free.
Half full, or half empty?
Continue...Steve

 

[kylen]

Mary et al,

I haven't read the posts on this thread since 7:30 this morning, but here goes;

Dear Paul,

1. MAC brochures to hobbyists are claiming that the MAC program certifies animals are coming from well-managed reefs. How can MAC make this claim if the CAMPs do not require a resource assessment to be in place prior to certification?

2. MAC certified fish are now hitting the retail market. Retailers are not being told that they are not allowed to advertise MAC certified fish unless their facility is certified. How does MAC plan to address this problem? Are there policies in place requiring this information to be distributed by MAC certified wholesalers?

3. What is preventing anyone from writing "MAC certified" on their tanks? If a retailer does this (either out of pure intention to defraud or from purchasing fish that are touted as MAC certified on their invoice), what action with MAC take?

I am a paying customer and would like the same questions answered.

Kyle Nelson
Coast Mountain Aquatics
Richmond BC Canada
(MAC Certified)

 

[naesco]

a GOLD MINE IN ONLINE?
Mary,
Did you hear that?
There most certainly is not but is there were, it would suck away income from the brick and mortar retailer that is the critical mass of, the face to face of and the backbone of the industry.
Just cause you can ship lowball polyps and low metabolism coral frags doesn't mean you're going to do that well with the conveyor belt carriers door to door. Securing good fish isn't even that easy when you get to eyeball em yourself but going online with this is just another way to kill real retailers. Thats not only not nice, its going to hurt MAC certified stores...which will in turn delete the certification scheme of which you speak of.
Steve

I fully support ethical mom and pop operations. I would never buy a fish on line especially and tang.
But the reality is that reefers do and some have no choice as to where they live.
It would be nice to have these reefers have the benefit of certiifed cyanide free fish as well.

 

[naesco]

Naesco,
If we all unite and get our S#*@ together [ by that I assume you mean "selves"] then we will become an ...an...NGO!
Really, what you see as disorganization and pecking partying, I see as proof of poor advice and counsul from the MAC get go... and now seriously concerned people are giving the missing advice and consultation for free.
Half full, or half empty?
Continue...Steve

:? I don't understand

 

[naesco]

On the whole issue of certification, Quality Marine which is MAC certified should be able to sell certified fish to anyone IMO.

Why would you even need the MAC then, Naesco?
If there are no standards required for the local stores, how does that differ from reality now?
This sounds a lot like what existed before the MAC even existed...

Regards.
Mike Kirda
P.S. And as the end consumer of their product, I hope to god that MAC doesn't think of us as a 'black hole'. We are the reason why they exist.

'We" are not the black hole it is the endless questions and answers and questions. IMO we should all focus on the main issue: the CDT and training

As a reefer here are my thoughts.
(Substitute MAC)
I am happy to buy from someone who buys their fish from Mavini in the Philippines.
I am happy to buy from someone who buys their fish from Mary or Kyle in Vancouver.
I am happy to buy from a MAC certified store in Vancouver if their was one.

I would prefer that all in the chain get certified but that is not going to happen soon.
A friend of mine is starting a marine tank and want certified fish. I told him to phone Kyle and find out what is available and go to a LFS and have them buy those fish from Kyle.

The key thing here is not the certification of everyone IMO.The key is to do random CDT on the suppliers from the Philippines. It would be better stateside but that is not going to happen soon.

 

[Anonymous]

You guys that believe that MAC will be able to survive on just the independents:

How in the world do you expect a team of people MAC's size to be able to "police" every single retail store in the US, along with the paper trail "from reef to retail"?

I don't think it can be done. Look at the various DNR agengies, and Agriculture Departments that are supposedly already watching over the animal care in the industry, and that's at tax payer expense.

What possible reason would they have for ignoring the easy way, (instantly certifying the paper trails, holding procedures, and maintenace regimes of 200 Petco's, with no more than a few memo's and official corporate documents and plan o grams sent down the ranks), or going store by store to the thousands of independents out there?

Iams used to swear that they would never go into the mass market as well. But this is an industry after all.

 

[Anonymous]

Rover wrote:

Iams used to swear that they would never go into the mass market as well. But this is an industry after all.

you took the words right out of my mouth

 

[MaryHM]

There is a gold mine in cyanide free online sales.

There isn't even interest, naesco, much less a gold mine. Since I started SeaCrop back in late January, we've had almost $10000 in sales. Want to know how much of that consists of fish? Less than $250. We've sold about 9 fish since we started.

I am a paying customer and would like the same questions answered.

Excellent, Kyle. Now that we have a paying customer asking the questions, we should expect to see answers soon. Hopefully they'll be quicker about answering your questions then they have been about getting your MAC stickers to you.

 

[John_Brandt]

John,

Are there any other wholesalers other than Quality Marine that are certified? How many retail stores are certified?

Thanks,

Chip

MAC CERTIFIED IMPORTERS/WHOLESALERS

CANADA

Coast Mountain Aquatics
#19 12871 Bathgate Way
Richmond, British Columbia V6V 1Y5 Canada
Tel. +1 604 244 0670
Email. [email protected]

UNITED STATES

A&M Aquatics
Unit 11, 400 Business Centre Drive
Lansing, Michigan 48917 USA
Tel. +1 517 372 7811
Email [email protected]

Quality Marine
5420 West 104th Street
Los Angeles, California 90045 USA
Tel. +1 310 645 1107
Email: [email protected]


MAC CERTIFIED RETAILERS

UNITED STATES

Illinois

Living Sea Aquarium
811 West Devon Avenue
Park Ridge, Illinois 6000-4792 USA
Tel. +1 847 698-7258
Email [email protected]


Michigan

Preuss Animal House
4119 Haslett Road
Haslett, Michigan 48840 USA
Tel. +1 517 339 1762
Email. [email protected]

The Reef Shop
6527 Naomi Street
Portage, Michigan 49002 USA
Tel. +1 616-323-3721
Email [email protected]

All Wet Pets, Inc.
Gill-Roy's Plaza
G-6429 W. Pierson Road, Suite #8
Flushing, Michigan 48433 USA
Tel. +1 810 487 2033
Email [email protected]

 

[Anonymous]

I'm still not at all sure as to why all of the first to be certified stores were in the same part of the country. Was it to get the kinks out while dealing with one major airport or something?

 

[MaryHM]

All of the Michigan stores don't use the same airport, so that couldn't have been it.

 

[mkirda]

Was it to get the kinks out while dealing with one major airport or something?

Major airport? Like Lansing, MI? :lol:

Awfully far out of DTW...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Anonymous]

Isn't it because they pooled together on the Inspector, thus making it slightly cheaper? I thought thats what I heard at MACNA last year..

 

[John_Brandt]

Yes, that is the reason. The Certifier was able to inspect and certify all of them in a "package deal". This is a way for a group of geographically-proximal stores to be certified for a reduced amount, as part of the certifying fee is travel expenses for the certifier.

 

[Anonymous]

Having been to **, as well as *** recently, I'm getting a bitterly ironic chuckle out of these establishments being MAC certified. :roll: Sheesh. I don't have to ask what it means, I've seen what it means.

 

[John_Brandt]

What was the irony you observed?