Livestock guarantee...is this acceptable?

[JennM]

Thanks for clearing that up Jenn.

You wrote that you pledged your loyalty to some people that really helped you out when something went bad. I would think that this way of building loyalty would also work in the lfs realm. Not ever being a shop keeper I'm only going on my thoughts as a customer.

That's the difference between the wholesalers and the good wholesalers. The good ones will work WITH their customers to the benefit of all. I'm as loyal as the day is long to anyone who treats me right When dealing with livestock there is a lot of risk, packing, shipping, tanking.... the ones who take the most care KNOW that what they sell is of high quality so if something goes wrong, they know something was up. Likewise, not abusing any guarantees runs both ways - by not claiming the odd DOA I "give" back... I have found that being loyal begets loyalty too...

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

The Guarentee issue with customers is pretty damn rare for me - I like Jenn usually don't claim the odd single DOA - my larger DOA claims are usually when I have 1000 astreas or 1000 hermits in an order and get like 200 "survivors".

 

[flameangel1]

comment on wholesalers "guarantees"-- as Jenn said, most are worthless and not worth even trying to get. If an order comes in bad, (as in half are DOA or more ) , for example, the norm is ," reorder within two weeks and we will refund 5% of the DOA's "!!!!!! But, no refund if you tank them HALF DEAD !!!!! Am I supposed to not try to save them ????

And if the animals are DOA, where does one get the money to reorder within that two weeks to begin with ?????
I received a 95% DOA with 5% nearly DOA order from C-Quest, only to be told that it was the "shippers that killed them so we can not refund anything". (Yes, they do advertize live arrrival guarantee, and I had ordered repeatedly from them before and yes, I do pay immediately.)
(by the way, I will NOT deal with C-Quest anymore after that episode)

I do not believe I have ever , in ten years, gotten an order that did not have DOA's or damaged animals, and 99% of the time, I do not say anything to the wholesalers.
It is not worth the hassle.

I will say that Mary has replaced orders that got lost in transist for days, as has ORA, but they are the exception.

 

[Anonymous]

I try to make it a point to always call my sales rep a few hours after the shipment has been tanked. I always mention the DOA's no matter how insignifigant. It doesn't matter to me if I get the credit or not, I just feel the feedback is important. It also goes a long way towards developing a history and a pattern. That will come in useful when there is a real problem at some point. I just know that I appreciate any feedback I get from my customers, I'm sure the wholesalers feel the same way.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm treated very well by my wholesalers, so I cannot complain. When something happens, then they fix it.

I'm going with the dating system...if it's been here a while, and it's eating, then no guarantee when it leaves the store...it's the customer's responsibility.

Peace,

Chip

 

[Anonymous]

I guarantee fish for 30 days in tanks that I personally maintain, if I add the fish myself.

 

[MaryHM]

From a wholesaler's point of view...

I appreciate the customer who tells me that they lost 3 damsels in their shipment. I need the feedback. It never ceases to amaze me how a fish who is perfectly healthy and eating when it leaves can croak in the bag. Since all of our fish are held for at least 2 days, I have a good idea what is going on with them. I have a better idea if I know what's going on with them after they've gone on to the retailer.

I do not appreciate the customer who orders 50 damsels and then throws a fit because 3 are dead. And then demands credit. I absorb DOA, and the LFS should have to absorb some too. It's part of the risk of dealing with live animals. If DOA's are outrageous, there's usually a reason behind it, and if it's my fault (not a long shipping delay), I will credit customers based on our terms.

One thing people who ship out fish have to deal with is the people who claim enough DOA to cover their freight. It's amazing how one customer out of 20 will continually claim about $60 worth of DOA- when no one else has a problem. I have finally whittled out these people. I've found that the most effective way is that if they've done it twice in a row we tell them that apparently we are unable to provide them with quality animals for some reason and maybe someone else could service their account better. I've gone so far as to give them names of other wholesalers. Interestingly enough, they will then continue to order without claiming DOA. I have to trust my customers. A LFS selling to a hobbyist generally knows the fish is dead, because the hobbyist brings back the fish. I have to take people's word for it.

Customers who give me detailed feedback are cherished. Customers who whine and moan about the tiniest things and make credit demands are not. And when there is a big "judgement call" type DOA, guess who I'm more likely to try to work with...

 

[flameangel1]

Mary,,
Just for the record, I had a 4 inch Acanthurus Olivaceous that had been here since February, eating great, fat and sassy. Sold it two weeks ago, and it was head down in the bag a half hour later when the customer got home !!!!
Now, I do not use nets, it did not seem upset when I caught it and put it in the bag,big bag with plenty of good water etc and the customer is very careful, so the only thing I can think of as to why it died, is the shock of being taken from its more or less "home". First time that has ever happened to me and I still don't know the why .

I hold all animals until I know they are settled down/eating good and use to people around the tanks (anywhere from one week to 6 months or more ) and have no guarantee, but in special cases, will replace a fish free.

 

[JennM]

Oh I absolutely agree that feedback is beneficial to both the store and the wholesaler - I usually email or phone in feedback when things are awesome, as well as when they aren't. Usually if they aren't awesome, there's a good reason.

I've always offered pictures of DOA if there were excessive amounts or if there was any question as to "validity". Nobody ever took me up on it, but I'm always prepared to send digital pictures of the dead-in-the-bag animals if need be. I don't discard them until after I've communciated with the shipper. Once in a while a fish is on its last legs (fins?) on arrival, I will tank it in my hospital system and try to save it - sometimes they make it, sometimes they don't.

Once it's "mine" after arrival, I've got to take the loss if it dies anyway, so does each link in the chain of custody, right up to and including the hobbyist.

I can probably count on one hand the number of times my 24 hour guarantee has been claimed, and about half of those times it was a water quality issue on the part of the customer. If people are reasonable, I'll try to help them out on a future purchase, but once I had a guy and his girlfriend come in and get all bent out of shape because the royal gramma I sold him for his 10 hex, died when it was chased into the rocks by the yellow tang (!!!!) and domino damsel (!!!!!) that he bought elsewhere, and omitted to mention. I would have offered some help and advice to the guy, but his (mouthpiece) girlfriend stood there with her hands on her hips and DEMANDED that I compensate them! It was all I could do not to tell her to watch that the door didn't hit her butt on the way out *g* but I was firm but polite, and I think he's been in my shop once since then, when I wasn't there. I won't sell him livestock anyway. Am I rambling?

Bottom line: start with healthy fish - watch them, know that they are healthy when they leave, and know that they are going into healthy tanks and the guarantee issue becomes a non-issue.

Jenn

 

[MattM]

Last "guarantee" I remember...

Customer bought a fairly expensive ($50+) angelfish. Returned the next day with dead fish and water sample (in seperate bags). First drop of the nitrite titrant and the sample turned such a dark red is was almost black - about the color of a red zinfandel gone bad. It was way off the scale but I guestimated her nitrite at 50ppm.

The punch line: She is the fish department manager at our local PetCo. :roll: