Livestock guarantee...is this acceptable?

[Anonymous]

I'm trying to search for a way to guarantee my livestock so I don't get burned by customers who don't follow my recommendations (i.e. shop at another store and buy livestock that isn't compatible with what they have).

I was thinking of dating each animal as it comes into the shop, and then listing the guarantee as "any animal here 2 weeks has no guarantee" since that's usually the past the time frame when problems develop.

What do ya'll do for livestock guarantee? Anything?

Thanks for the help...

Peace,

Chip

 

[JennM]

Around here the standard is 24 hours, regardless of its arrival date. I prefer to test clients' water first, especially if it's a new customer. If they opt not to bring water for a free test, and the fish is reported dead, I want the body back and a water sample. If the parameters are out of whack (read: any ammonia, nitrite or nitrate above 50 ppm, pH below 8.0) then the warranty is void. I have only ever had a few instances of death in the first 24 hours, and most of them had a water problem.

I date all my fish, some customers care, some don't. Some don't even care if the fish eats - but for my own peace of mind, I usually feed it first anyway.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

Ours is 48 hours on salt, and 7 days on fresh. 50% credit back if your water tests okay (although we are pretty lenient with this on a case by case basis, especially with regulars). If your water comes back funky we'll give the credit towards stuff to fix it (ie buffer).

They must bring the dead fish back, with a separate sample of water (a distinction most people overlook). No refunds given for incompatibility.

 

[dizzy]

I date all my fish, some customers care, some don't. Some don't even care if the fish eats - but for my own peace of mind, I usually feed it first anyway.Jenn

Jenn,
That sounds a little kinky, but I guess you might as well enjoy the time they're in your custody. :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

LOL, dizzy! :lol:

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I'll have to come up with something similar and post it. Do y'all have yours posted?

Peace,

Chip

 

[JennM]

I date all my fish, some customers care, some don't. Some don't even care if the fish eats - but for my own peace of mind, I usually feed it first anyway.Jenn

Jenn,
That sounds a little kinky, but I guess you might as well enjoy the time they're in your custody. :lol:

::::::::Smacks Mitch with a large Mineatus Grouper::::::::::

Ahem, I mark the price card for each fish with its arrival date......

Sheesh

:lol:

Jenn

 

[MaryHM]

Own it, Jenn...own it.

 

[Anonymous]

From our website:

Livestock Returns
We purchase livestock from customers regularly, so bring those frags in! Just call and make an appointment first. We have a generous hold policy (see above) for livestock, so make sure it is what you want before you put the animal through the stress of a move and acclimation. Healthy animals returned will be bought back at their wholesale price for store credit. For livestock which has died, the specimen must be returned within 48 hours along with a water sample for testing. A refund may not be given if your water quality tests poor. While we will make every effort to ensure the long term health of your purchase, we can not be responsible for losses due to aggressive tank mates, long periods in transit to your home, etc. Due to their sensitive nature and demanding requirements, we can not give refunds for small polyp stony corals.

Of course I'm willing to bend the rules sometimes depending on circumstances, I *have* given an SPS refund, but that was a very rare occasion. Personally if the animal is in my tank for a very long time - then I've got very little inclination to give a refund on such since I know it's doing well.

 

[Anonymous]

I was always leery of people that brought in samples with 0 nitrates after a fish death. I ran into customers mixing up fresh saltwater for the test before and after a fish death.

 

[Anonymous]

our only 'guarantee' policy is on f/w-none on s/w

fish, reciept, and water sample are required-w/in 48 hrs of purchase, only

compatability issue deaths are the customers problem-we will not commit to 'guaranteeing' behavior of any animal

if we recommend something to not buy, for any reason at all, and the customer insists- we put a code on the bag that voids any warranty/guarranty, and tell them so-goes on the reciept, too :wink:

i personally cannot stand the whole idea of the 'guarantee'

it's more just a response by independents to the idjits who run the chains-w/their 1-2 week policies-which is itself just a marketing ploy

a doctor can give you a clean bill of health, but cannot guarantee you won't still get a heart attack on your way out of his office,-and idjits think we can guarantee an animal's health? :lol:

mebbe when they invent a hand held waterproof x-ray machine :wink:

(and a cheap one, at that) :wink:

 

[John_Brandt]

Around here the standard is 24 hours, regardless of its arrival date. I prefer to test clients' water first, especially if it's a new customer. If they opt not to bring water for a free test, and the fish is reported dead, I want the body back and a water sample. If the parameters are out of whack (read: any ammonia, nitrite or nitrate above 50 ppm, pH below 8.0) then the warranty is void. I have only ever had a few instances of death in the first 24 hours, and most of them had a water problem.

I date all my fish, some customers care, some don't. Some don't even care if the fish eats - but for my own peace of mind, I usually feed it first anyway.

Jenn

Which test kit do you use to check their water?

 

[John_Brandt]

I was always leery of people that brought in samples with 0 nitrates after a fish death. I ran into customers mixing up fresh saltwater for the test before and after a fish death.

Unless they took measures to correct it, freshly-mixed saltwater will have a sky-high pH value.

 

[JennM]

Around here the standard is 24 hours, regardless of its arrival date. I prefer to test clients' water first, especially if it's a new customer. If they opt not to bring water for a free test, and the fish is reported dead, I want the body back and a water sample. If the parameters are out of whack (read: any ammonia, nitrite or nitrate above 50 ppm, pH below 8.0) then the warranty is void. I have only ever had a few instances of death in the first 24 hours, and most of them had a water problem.

I date all my fish, some customers care, some don't. Some don't even care if the fish eats - but for my own peace of mind, I usually feed it first anyway.

Jenn

Which test kit do you use to check their water?

I use Seachem tests, and a salinity refractometer. Why do you ask? (And yes, I know that with any hobby-grade test kit there is a plus or minus...) I have found Seachem tests to be accurate and easy to read.

Jenn

 

[John_Brandt]

I ask because the figure Nitrate < 50 ppm is meaningless unless you say if you are testing for nitrate as total nitrogen, or nitrate ion. Which does the SeaChem kit test for?

 

[JennM]

I'll have to look at the instructions at the shop because I don't know the answer to the question off the top of my head. (At least I can admit that...hmmm?)

Generally the problem I rule in or out is the presence of total ammonia and nitrite, which stems from overfeeding despite my advice to the contrary. Not very often a sudden death occurs that could be blamed on high nitrate, as my test measures it, but every now and then I get someone come in who has declined a water test, because all his current fish are healthy, buys a new fish, which becomes stressed upon arrival and may die some time in the first week to 10 days. My conclusion is that the existing livestock has become accustomed to the high nitrate levels as they rose over time, and the newcomer cannot handle the change.

(Do I pass?)

Jenn

 

[John_Brandt]

I'll have to look at the instructions at the shop because I don't know the answer to the question off the top of my head. (At least I can admit that...hmmm?)

Generally the problem I rule in or out is the presence of total ammonia and nitrite, which stems from overfeeding despite my advice to the contrary. Not very often a sudden death occurs that could be blamed on high nitrate, as my test measures it, but every now and then I get someone come in who has declined a water test, because all his current fish are healthy, buys a new fish, which becomes stressed upon arrival and may die some time in the first week to 10 days. My conclusion is that the existing livestock has become accustomed to the high nitrate levels as they rose over time, and the newcomer cannot handle the change.

(Do I pass?)

Jenn

Not passed yet.....

I'd like to know what you consider high nitrate level (and I need to know the nitrate as total nitrogen or nitrate ion designation). And I'd like to know where to find meaningful evidence that nitrate kills fish.

FWIW, I often see what appears to be false positives for ammonia and nitrite using the Tetra test kits.

 

[Anonymous]

We rarely test for nitrate when dealing with a fish return. Usually just check for pH, ammonia, and nitrite (most of our returns are freshwater anyway, rarely do we have a saltwater return). Any of those three out of whack is indicitive a some serious problems with the maintenance of the tank, either it's not cycled properly, or water changes not done enough etc. The "free water" test is really good opportunity to teach the customer about proper maintenance and to make sure they are doing things the right way. As sad as it is, many people don't really listen until after something is dead.

 

[dizzy]

I'd say if the people bring the dead fish back in the water you are testing, the results are virtually worthless. I hate to get an employee tied up testing water on a 99 cent fish on a busy Saturday. We usually give them a quick lesson on proper husbandry and just replace the fish. Saltwater is tougher call. We don't have an implied guarantee on our fish, but we do try to help the customers out if we want to keep them. Sometimes I offer to sell them another one at half price so we are sharing the loss. Very few stores in Kentucky get 300% markup on saltwater fish. A flame angel goes for around $40 in this neck of the woods.

 

[John_Brandt]

Flame angelfish routinely sell for $50-80 in Chicago.

Rover, I think you typed nitrate in your last message, but you meant nitrite.

 

[Smyerscough]

I'll have to look at the instructions at the shop because I don't know the answer to the question off the top of my head. (At least I can admit that...hmmm?)

Generally the problem I rule in or out is the presence of total ammonia and nitrite, which stems from overfeeding despite my advice to the contrary. Not very often a sudden death occurs that could be blamed on high nitrate, as my test measures it, but every now and then I get someone come in who has declined a water test, because all his current fish are healthy, buys a new fish, which becomes stressed upon arrival and may die some time in the first week to 10 days. My conclusion is that the existing livestock has become accustomed to the high nitrate levels as they rose over time, and the newcomer cannot handle the change.

(Do I pass?)

Jenn

Not passed yet.....

I'd like to know what you consider high nitrate level (and I need to know the nitrate as total nitrogen or nitrate ion designation). And I'd like to know where to find meaningful evidence that nitrate kills fish.

FWIW, I often see what appears to be false positives for ammonia and nitrite using the Tetra test kits.

Seachem measures the Nitrate values
Nitrate is NO3- not Nitrogen. to convert to Nitrogen then divide by 4.4

To quote the seachem test kit "Nitrate (NO3-) is relatively non toxic but it is advantageous to control it under 20 mg/L.


I'm glad you don't care for my tanks.

Scott

Owner Imagine Ocean