Improving the survival rates of transported fish.

[Terry B]

Hi all,
Some of you may know who I am from various magazine articles that I have written including for Advanced Aquarist Online magazine. I am currently researching ways to improve the survival rate of transported marine fish. I am examining packaging protocol, factors such as Delayed Mortality Syndrome, stress management, nutritional supplements and an immune system modulator. I am investigating some ammonia detoxifiers, breathable bags and buffers such as Tris buffer or Trizma. Do people post pertinent information on the outside of shipping boxes such as what salinity the water is, chemicals used, etc?

I hope to propose some changes that will improve the survival of fish during and 7 days post shipment (or longer). I am sure that some of the changes that I can suggest will meet with resistance because they are inconvenient or increase costs. I have compiled 27 references mostly from scientific journals to support these ideas. Some of the changes I have in mind include employing hyposaline conditions to alleviate the stress of handling and transport, and using methods to enhance immune function and stress resistance.

I would love to get some input from people with experience in these areas. Some feedback about issues such as the practicality of using breathable bags and other things would be great. I have corresponded with people at Sigma about Trizma (Tris buffer). I talked to people at Kordon about ClorAm-X, Amquel, buffers, breathable bags. I also contacted Seachem about StressGuard and AmGuard. I plan to contact Kent Marine about some of there products including Pro Tech Coat Marine. There are some compatibility issue and other problems with some of these products. Today I plan on talking to Kevin Kohen about research that he has conducted. He is the director of LiveAquaria .com for Fosters and Smith.

I am not claiming to be the expert on shipping fish, but I am researching the subject and diligently looking for ways to improve the survival of marine fish during and post shipment. I appreciate any information, help or encouragement that you can offer.
Thank you for your consideration,
Terry B

 

[Anonymous]

Do people post pertinent information on the outside of shipping boxes such as what salinity the water is, chemicals used, etc?

Never seen that before, just (imports) what items are in the box, etc.

breathable bags

Not the cost the people will debate, but it's lack of strengh (even an anemone can poke thru them :wink: ) and the simple fact that they can't touch other objects otherwise the "breathable" function is useless. Mandating them would give Kordan a monopoly on the market as their the only ones currently selling them.

Source and health of fish PRIOR to shipping is the biggest killer in shipping. This industry doesn't know what "good" fish really are, so how can one claim shipping is whats killing them. Starving fish coming from further and further away is the main killer in shipping/post consumer DOA/DAA.

 

[mkirda]

Terry,

It is an area prime for doing real research.
If you are seriously interested in trying out techniques and comparing them, I can think of a couple of people who might be willing to try them out if the materials could be donated and the results made public.
I don't think it would necessarily cost a great deal of money either.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[naesco]

Terry whether it adds to the costs of fish or not is irrelavent because IMO you will see delivery protocols such as you suggest mandatory.

Whereas the use of garlic extract has proven to be effective in treating mild ich infections has anyone experimented with the use of this natural source to improve the high risk of ich infection in transit?

 

[Terry B]

Mike,
I do not have any funding or products to offer for testing. I agree that such a project would be worthwhile and that this sort of research is important to the future of the hobby.
What I am trying to do is research the subject and report what I find for publication. There is some research available on the subject, but I don’t think that they go far enough.

Lim, L.C. Dhert, P & Sorgeloos, P. “Recent Developments and Improvements in Ornamental Fish Packaging Systems for Air Transport.” Aquaculture Research, 34, 11, pp. 923-935, 2003.

Naesco,
I think that we would be much wiser using a known biological defense modulator than using garlic.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... eature.htm

Terry B

 

[Anonymous]

It's been too many years, I think, for my own observations to be currently pertinent, though I'm certainly willing to share what I do have filed away up here <feels her head> if you wish.

 

[MaryHM]

Feel free to contact me at [email protected]

 

[Anonymous]

Terry whether it adds to the costs of fish or not is irrelavent because IMO you will see delivery protocols such as you suggest mandatory.

Whereas the use of garlic extract has proven to be effective in treating mild ich infections has anyone experimented with the use of this natural source to improve the high risk of ich infection in transit?

what?!

garlic hasn't been 'proven' to do anything for fish and ich, yet. all of the evidence is strictly anecdotal.

do you have any links to back that up, naesco?

 

[Anonymous]

Do people post pertinent information on the outside of shipping boxes such as what salinity the water is, chemicals used, etc?

Never seen that before, just (imports) what items are in the box, etc.

breathable bags

Not the cost the people will debate, but it's lack of strengh (even an anemone can poke thru them :wink: ) and the simple fact that they can't touch other objects otherwise the "breathable" function is useless. Mandating them would give Kordan a monopoly on the market as their the only ones currently selling them.

Source and health of fish PRIOR to shipping is the biggest killer in shipping. This industry doesn't know what "good" fish really are, so how can one claim shipping is whats killing them. Starving fish coming from further and further away is the main killer in shipping/post consumer DOA/DAA.

i would tend to agree with that :wink:

i'm not sure if shipping techniques should be looked at before the handling/holding issues are resolved first (an emaciated, stressed out fish may not really be able to be positively affected/helped by even the best shipping techniques)

though it's still a worthwhile piece of the puzzle to look into

 

[naesco]

Terry whether it adds to the costs of fish or not is irrelavent because IMO you will see delivery protocols such as you suggest mandatory.

Whereas the use of garlic extract has proven to be effective in treating mild ich infections has anyone experimented with the use of this natural source to improve the high risk of ich infection in transit?

what?!

garlic hasn't been 'proven' to do anything for fish and ich, yet. all of the evidence is strictly anecdotal.

do you have any links to back that up, naesco?

No but I would like a scientist to do a proper study to confirm or deny that it works.

 

[Anonymous]

Then why the use of the word "proven" in your post if it wasn't or isn't so?

 

[Kalkbreath]

[More water....less time in the bag ]. The reason fish are in such a stressed condition prior to being shipped, is that the Airplane carrying the fish off the island.... only does so once a week. That means fishermen whom collect fish on Monday,Tues or Wedness need to hold their catch for a few days until the plane come to take the fish away.{it is impossible to collect the ALL the fish one day before the plane arrives} Even more stressful are the fish which must spend another week being held over.{because no not enough people ordered that fish type this week} This entire industry is bound by the Airfreight business. The carriers actually make a larger profit per box then the fish company. Even in domestic delivery like Fed Ex.....Federal express make more money per pound of live rock , delivering that box of rock ...then the company selling the rock! {$1 perpound over cost vs. fed Ex 1.35 to 1.75 }The combine effects of high freight costs and infrequent flights is the biggest obstacle the fish face. No amount of hi tech water bags or magic potions will be able to reconfigure the mathematics involved with too little water and too long a confinement .[

 

[PeterIMA]

Replies to Terry and Gresham.

There is a need for research on shipping methods to improve survival. I have conducted some evaluation of breathing bags, and believe I may have found some solutions to the problems mentioned by Gresham. I will discuss this at the Marine Ornamentals Conference in Honolulu next week.

The assertion that fish die from starvation (in the short term) appears to be a misconception created by Dr. Goldstein who misinterpreted the research (FAMA article several years ago) by Hall and Bellwood (1995). There is evidence for delayed mortality caused by cyanide-alone, stress- alone, but not from starvation-alone. These factors in combination did increase the mortality.

Hall, K.C. and D.R. Bellwood. 1995. Histological effects of cyanide, stress and starvation on the intestinal mucosa of Pomacentris coelestis, a marine aquarium species. Journal of Fish Biology 47: 438-454.

 

[Anonymous]

There is evidence for delayed mortality caused by cyanide-alone, stress- alone, but not from starvation-alone. These factors in combination did increase the mortality.

But not from starvation alone, you sure about that Peter? The holding to long of a fish that requires constant food, won't kill it?

Kalk, fish need to be cleaned out, thats the MAIN reason that the don't collect the day of shipping.

 

[PeterIMA]

Gresham, I would agree that fish that don't obtain food will eventually starve to death. This could take several months. The study by Hall and Bellwood (1995) found that the degeneration of the lining of the anterior intestine was related to starvation (based on histology of the intestine). Another part of the study directly monitored mortalities of damselfish exposed to cyanide, stress, and starvation over a 13 day period. None of the fish which were not fed (starvation-alone condition) over this time period died. There was a 37.5% mortality for the test group exposed to cyanide-alone,(10 ppm cyanide ion for 85 seconds) and 25% for the fish which were stressed by removing coral rubble from their aquaria (stress-alone condition). There was 25% delayed mortality for the CN+Stress group, 33.3% mortality for CN+starvation, 66.7% mortality for the group exposed to stress+starvation, and 41.8% mortality for the group exposed to all three factors (CN+stress+starvation).

The combined conditions indicate that starvation was important in contributing to the mortality.

 

[Anonymous]

So starvation, coupled with transportation leads to degeneration, ok.

 

[PeterIMA]

Yes but I think that cyanide and stress were more important factors.

 

[Kalkbreath]

Gresham, I would agree that fish that don't obtain food will eventually starve to death. This could take several months. The study by Hall and Bellwood (1995) found that the degeneration of the lining of the anterior intestine was related to starvation (based on histology of the intestine). Another part of the study directly monitored mortalities of damselfish exposed to cyanide, stress, and starvation over a 13 day period. None of the fish which were not fed (starvation-alone condition) over this time period died. There was a 37.5% mortality for the test group exposed to cyanide-alone,(10 ppm cyanide ion for 85 seconds) and 25% for the fish which were stressed by removing coral rubble from their aquaria (stress-alone condition). There was 25% delayed mortality for the CN+Stress group, 33.3% mortality for CN+starvation, 66.7% mortality for the group exposed to stress+starvation, and 41.&% mortality for the group exposed to all three factors (CN+stress+starvation).

The combined conditions indicate that starvation was important in contributing to the mortality.

What fish ? Species makes all the difference

 

[Kalkbreath]

So starvation, coupled with transportation leads to degeneration, ok.

Does anyone dispute that fish from certain areas like Australia or Hawaii dont die during transport? Dispute the fact that these fish are transported using the same boxes and bags?{Its not the bags !} Breathing bags must have "breathing boxes" to exchange air. There is no extra air in a fish box! I dont want fresh air to reach my fish ...{I want PURE OXYGEN!}......Its 40 degrees in most US airfreight docks this week. [I want the heat to stay in }I also dont want the twenty alive fish in a box exchanging air with the dead fish in the bag. {thats why we bag then separately} ONCE AGAIN YOU REEFORMERS ARE ASS BACKWARDS!

 

[clarionreef]

Egads people,
Heat,cold, Ammonia stress and poisoning and PH shock kill more fish then 02 depletion...by a huge margin actually.
Air kills...by displacing 02. Only 02 keeps them going for 30 plus hours.

But all this is well known already.
Steve

PS. Besides, fishes are always shipped in airtight liner bags which restrict the interior of the boxes to the finite amount of air inside. If open to fresh air, the fishes would all burn up or freeze in their stem-winding global journeys thruout the world.
Without the airtight liners...boxes would leak saltwater like crazy and shipping live fish would be banned on the airlines.
PS. Kalk...its kinda not not fair arguing w/ non-aquarium fish people sometimes. Since professionals handle more fish in a week then most hobbyists do in a lifetime, an accelerated education on this stuff is natural and a matter of fact.
It does give pause to wonder how much else this guessing from a fragment of the picture the new internet 'refomers' are handicapped with.
There are thousands of fields of endeavor I know little about...like discus breeding for example. This keeps me from crashing a discus forum and telling all the breeders and experts there "whats really going on."