a picture for kalk...

[clarionreef]

Mike,
Its like debating the Joker from Batman.
Ya kinda like the Joker...and then he shows his mean side.
Kalks role is more like a punching bag in a weight room. Not a legitimate debate partner. Or like the devils advocate used to get candidates ready for the real thing.
Or maybe hes like the chase rabbit sent out to animate the hounds.
But the knee jerk contraryness and predictable naysaying and avoidance of responsibilty ... is growing tedious.
Crabgrass...yes, theres a better analogy.
Without him, it all be on Naesco to amuse us. I thank them for the service they provide.
I for one wish only they would run a post.
Naesco; BAN IT!
Kalk; WHY? WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!
Naesco; SHUT IT ALL DOWN!
KALK: WHY? WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!
Naesco; YOU AMERICANS THIS AND YOU AMERICANS THAT>>>!
kALK; Why? WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!
And rerun the thread til 2005.
Steve

 

[mkirda]

Mike,
And rerun the thread til 2005.
Steve

{sigh} You are probably right.
Why focus on the negativity of base Kalk?

BTW, congrats on getting the netting sent back with Ruwi.
You deserve a pat on the back. I'm glad CMAS was a part of it, too.

Had the pleasure of talking to Ferdinand tonight.
Heard about many things, some positive, some not so.
I'm sorry you didn't get to meet and hear from Dante- His presentation would have been quite sobering. I guess Immigration thought that he might P&T.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Kalkbreath]

Since neither one of you ever actually state any numbers to support your silly agendas .........I guess its equally silly for me to ask for you to do so. Silly me .........There are not enough cyanide fish collected each year for the hobby to effect the reefs of The Philippines ........Your failure to produce any numbers which support your agendas shows that you have little but emotion behind your view points. And now the world knows it. :wink:

 

[mkirda]

Since neither one of you ever actually state any numbers to support your silly agendas .........I guess its equally silly for me to ask for you to do so. Silly me .........There are not enough cyanide fish collected each year for the hobby to effect the reefs of The Philippines ........Your failure to produce any numbers which support your agendas shows that you have little but emotion behind your view points. And now the world knows it. :wink:

Funny. I used your numbers to refute your argument.
40000 squirts per bottle. Really? And each of those squirts gets fifty fish?
Really?
So one squirt bottle in the hands of one fisherman alone collects all the fish exported from the Philippines in only half a day of fishing? Wow, that's incredible!

So what are all the rest of the MO fishermen doing when this mythical cyanide collector with the light touch collects 2,000,000 fish with his single squirt bottle filled only once?
They must just be standing around in awe!

Really, Kalk, with arguments like that, you should just unplug.

 

[clarionreef]

Oh my goodness,
The 40,000 squirt question is an "indicator fib."
You know, like in reef surveys we use the incidence of indicator species to guage diversity and abundance....Well in argument and debate you occasionally come across a fib so silly and outrageous that it most certainly came from a hasty, dishonest, knee jerk response that is indicator of a mind set and character that betrays the speaker...for the fibber that he is.
There is no way that was an honest error.
Reverance for numbers we have been told guides his mission. But is it numbers like this that we have been challenged to refute?
If he can manufacture stuff like this...its not fair.
Then again, we are NOW fools to argue with a proven fibber.
LIAR, LIAR, PANTS ON FIRE! [IMO]
STEVE

 

[Kalkbreath]

Once again ........I still dont hear any numbers or data coming out of your silly little heads, to support your notions? And your the persons claiming there is a problem ? So unsure of your selves that you cant dare express your positions with your own data or numbers ........Question again, "How many fish are collected for this hobby with cyanide? And how many squirts does it take to collect those limited number of fish? And why do you feel that number can effect the reefs of The Philippines?"

Half of the fish collected with cyanide are damsels.Because half the fish being exported ARE damsels!!! And yes damsels are collected fifty at a time many times more then fifty individual fish WITH OR without CYANIDE .............But with cyanide ..........your guaranteed to collect the whole school. THATS WHY THEY ARE SO CHEAP!

So yes MKirda ,Many the fish from PI collected with cyanide are done so fifty at a time. :wink:

 

[mkirda]

Once again ........I still dont hear any numbers or data coming out of your silly little heads, to support your notions? And your the persons claiming there is a problem ? So unsure of your selves that you cant dare express your positions with your own data or numbers ........Question again, "How many fish are collected for this hobby with cyanide? And how many squirts does it take to collect those limited number of fish? And why do you feel that number can effect the reefs of The Philippines?"

Half of the fish collected with cyanide are damsels.Because half the fish being exported ARE damsels!!! And yes damsels are collected fifty at a time many times more then fifty individual fish WITH OR without CYANIDE .............But with cyanide ..........your guaranteed to collect the whole school. THATS WHY THEY ARE SO CHEAP!

So yes MKirda ,Many the fish from PI collected with cyanide are done so fifty at a time. :wink:

Jeff,

Read the freakin' thread. You want numbers?
I just posted (three posts up) a damning critique of your 'numbers'- They are base, false, unworthy even of you.
Earlier in this thread, I was the one who asked you these same questions, yet you squirmed for pages before being pinned down.
Upon analysis using these numbers, I gave my opinion that they were at least two orders of magnitude too high, as well as my reasons why.
Skewered, you were.
And now you have conveniently forgotten that fact, and ask me to provide you with answers I have already provided? Why?
Is that adult ADD kicking back in? Forget your meds? This is the only possible reasonable explanation for this question other than pure malice or extreme stupidity. (For the record, I don't believe the latter.)

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Kalkbreath]

What are your numbers? Dont use my numbers in your statement. Quoting Kalk is not the same as expressing your position numerically. How many fish are collected, how many with cyanide, how many squirts does it take to collect the cyanided fish and how can that number of squirts {what ever your number is? PS use numerical equations} effect the reefs as a whole in the region? Not one person on this board or anyone within the reeform movement has ever layed out their case .Why?

 

[hdtran]

I'm afraid my lone post got lost in the shouting, so I'll quote myself:

So, Kalkbreath, unless you show me a photo of a natural Indonesian or Filipino reef, with about 50 damsels in a cubic foot volume, I'm afraid that I cannot accept the assertion of 50 damsels per squirt.

I'm even willing to modify my quote to say that I'll accept another source (besides yourself) for 50 damsels in a squirt.

Otherwise, I can't believe you.

Oh, you want an equation: How about 50 ~= 1?

Hy

 

[Kalkbreath]

Okey .......explain why damsels only cost 20cents FOB? And about 1.5 million are shipped each year from PI? Thats half of the total 3 million.

 

[Anonymous]

What are your numbers? Dont use my numbers in your statement. Quoting Kalk is not the same as expressing your position numerically. How many fish are collected, how many with cyanide, how many squirts does it take to collect the cyanided fish and how can that number of squirts {what ever your number is? PS use numerical equations} effect the reefs as a whole in the region? Not one person on this board or anyone within the reeform movement has ever layed out their case .Why?

that about sums it up, right there

 

[mkirda]

that about sums it up, right there

The truly sad thing is... I gave him the numbers he's looking for already in this thread.
Forgot to take those ADD meds again, I guess. :wink:

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

Guys,
I just relized Kalk has a lot more to contribute than anyone else to reform the trade...just define it as blameless...viola!
To bad no one ever support or backs him.
Must be on account of everyone elses intellectual shortcomings I suppose.
It is just recreation actually. Kinda like nintendo games. Means nothing and just passes time. As long as there are no greater priorities, I guess how you choose to fritter time is up to the individual.
Next time the USCRTF starts up, we should just send Kalk to straighten em out/ Lets put him to use!
Whats that Mike? If we send him they'll close us for sure?
Steve

 

[Kalkbreath]

Bla BLa.......Still no numbers guys? Pretty sad!

 

[mkirda]

Bla BLa.......Still no numbers guys? Pretty sad!

Repeating myself for a third time, the numbers are already in this thread. You just gotta read it. As I just said.
Read.
Seek and ye shall find, o Kalk...
This asking me for it, me pointing them out to you, then you not looking for them and accusing me of not providing them to you is... well... pretty sad.

The saddest thing is that I have to repeat it so many times...
And you still don't get it.
Really, you should just unplug.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Seamaiden, did Peter Rubec warn you about using the IMA's copyrighted photo's? I sure did and I can't believe it for the life of me. In My Account looking for more money now Peter, geesh.

 

[Kalkbreath]

Bla BLa.......Still no numbers guys? Pretty sad!

Repeating myself for a third time, the numbers are already in this thread. You just gotta read it. As I just said.
Read.
Seek and ye shall find, o Kalk...
This asking me for it, me pointing them out to you, then you not looking for them and accusing me of not providing them to you is... well... pretty sad.

The saddest thing is that I have to repeat it so many times...
And you still don't get it.
Really, you should just unplug.

Actually Peter answered the question on another thread. His data agreed that the total number of squirts is at most 78,000. or about three squirts per square kilometer every twelve months . Now we know :wink:

 

[mkirda]

Bla BLa.......Still no numbers guys? Pretty sad!

Repeating myself for a third time, the numbers are already in this thread. You just gotta read it. As I just said.
Read.
Seek and ye shall find, o Kalk...
This asking me for it, me pointing them out to you, then you not looking for them and accusing me of not providing them to you is... well... pretty sad.

The saddest thing is that I have to repeat it so many times...
And you still don't get it.
Really, you should just unplug.

Actually Peter answered the question on another thread. His data agreed that the total number of squirts is at most 78,000. or about three squirts per square kilometer every twelve months . Now we know :wink:

Your twisting of his numbers would make the most limber circus performer salivate, Kalk.
Seriously, the whole basis of your argument could be brought down by any number of the piss-poor assumptions you made in your calculation.

Let me state this for the record: IF you can argue that a single squirt of cyanide can collect fifty fish, you absolutely cannot argue that the concentration of the squirt can be controlled, nor that the levels are such that it will not harm the coral. Right there is the fallacy of your assertion.

In other words, you cannot have your cake and eat it too, Kalk.
You cannot argue both sides against the middle and expect to be taken seriously, can you?

I'm still wondering how 80,000,000 fish divided by 50 equals 78,000.
Your math teacher must be cringing.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[mkirda]

six pages of proof for Kalk.

Six pages of rationalization from him.

Face it, Kalk.
You are still a cyanide apologist at heart.

 

[clarionreef]

Not only is he a good apologist,
But a good strategist as well.
He helped water down momentum on the pro-active stuff from the conference and kept allies tied up as the good news got older.
Maybe his math teacher hung himself already but as far as diverting us and muddying the water, he did a good job.
Does a debate over math and 'substance' matter so much anyway? I get the impression that citizenship and good manners are what people are looking for. If Kalk had support, any support at all, people would be after you for mistreating him. An apologist for the cyanide trade is an easy mark. Its safe to ridicule him.
We need you for more important things.

Steve