Etail/AMDA

[JT]

If retailers didn't buy it, there wouldn't be a transshipper in every warehouse complex within a 5 mile radius of LAX.

No tranship here thankfully. I think we stopped selling tranship just before I moved out here in December of 2003. I'm glad, I refuse to sell it.

 

[MaryHM]

Just a suggestion- if you are going to tire of answering questions about something, please don't bring the topic into a public discussion forum. I thought the membership was declining because they were being picked off one by one by etailers. This burning series of questions is still unanswered:

Seems to me that it should have been strictly between the AMDA members until a firm course of action was decided. Have you taken a poll of the AMDA members or just sent out a letter? Is there a vote in the works? How is this new direction going to be decided?

Like I said- I think it already has been decided and this whole "we'll do what the members want" line was a smokescreen. Wasn't Randy trying to do that very same thing and you had a hissy fit, Mitch? I guess as long as your agenda is in place it's fine.

 

[MaryHM]

No tranship here thankfully. I think we stopped selling tranship just before I moved out here in December of 2003. I'm glad, I refuse to sell it.

I'm not talking about the big wholesalers as much as all of those little 500 sqare foot warehouse "strip malls" that all have their roll up doors open with boxes of fish piled up outside every Saturday and Sunday.

 

[MaryHM]

Here's the AMDA Membership roster of only B&M retail stores that do not participate in etail:

Aquarium Center
Aquascapes/The Reef Shop- BUT he's only open Saturdays from 12-5 or by appointment only. So he really shouldn't be under retail according to many in here. But I'll put him here for simplicity's sake.
Aquatic Solutions- Has a website listed with AMDA, but that site is now for sale. May be out of business?? Don't know if he etailed or not.
Aqua Touch
Blue Sierra
Coral Fish Hawaii
Creatures Featured- BOARD MEMBER
Ecomay- Has a website, but since they're from FRANCE, I can't read it. What's up with the French invasion of AMDA?? There 2 members from France.
Fish & Other Ichthy Stuff
Fishy Business- BOARD MEMBER
Greentree Pet Center
Idaho Saltwater Emporium
Jack's Pet
Maru Pet Shop
Mountain Shadow Marine
Ocean's Floor
Pet Supplies Plus- BOARD MEMBER
Preuss Animal House
Reef Tectonics (limited hours, does etail books)
Sandy's Pet Shop
Aquatic Critter
Marine Scene
The Pet Store
The Reef House
Tropical Fantaseas
Wet Pets & Friends

About 20. Out of about 50. The minority.

 

[Anonymous]

Rover, since AMDA is now to be comprised solely of retailers then I guess I wouldn't want to be a member. Change my "Can I be an AMDA member?" to "Can I get an endorsement?". Now that we're talking about the same thing, answering should be easier.

No one ever said that AMDA was to be comprised solely of retailers. But the main focus will be on the traditional store front. And the answer to that question is "I don't know". We are still currently debating the endorsement thing, how it affects the by laws and the legality of it as an organization. I'm not going to say we are going to do it one way now, so you can cry foul when we do it a different way later. You started this thread by asking a question that doesn't currently have a concrete answer. The amount of public open debate that has gone into is has been more than any other organization has done in the past. Yes, the devil is in the details, and unless we can get the details worked out we will fail. This isn't something that we are going to fake, or plod along with until we run it into the ground. It either works or it doesn't. It's possible the whole thing is an exercise in futility. But if a group of retailers gets together in order to form a group to mobilize other retailers to their POV are you honestly surprised when the result will primarily benefit retailers?

 

[JT]

Here's the AMDA Membership roster of only B&M retail stores that do not participate in etail:

Jack's Pet

If this is the same Jack's Aquariums & Pets chain known throughout Ohio, they need to be removed from this list as they have a major financial interest in PetSolutions.com.

 

[devils advocate]

But the main focus will be on the traditional store front.

The use of the term "traditional store front" will be the spike in the heart of AMDA, IMO. All this arguing over etail, in all the forms that Mary has stated, is silly. This industry is changing and is not going back to the "traditional store front". The internet has changed almost all the retail sectors. If it's changed for the good is a matter for another debate.

This new direction of AMDA seems like sour grapes and the inability or refusal to bring change within their business in order to adapt to the new marketplace driven by the internet.

 

[MaryHM]

Apparently I'm going to have to hand out two prizes today. One to Gresham and one to Devil's Advocate. Anyone know where I can find some cool prizes online for cheap?

 

[dizzy]

Mary you spent most of your term on the BOD working on a Platinum Program without once consulting the membership. For you to ask the questions you are asking now smacks of hypocrisy. You also sat on a BOD that voted to endorse MAC without consulting the membership. You quit AMDA and you have done nothing but slander the organization since. You were part of a very secretive AMDA BOD, but we have taken this public. So what if you don't like the way we do things. Frankly Mary I don't give a damn.
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

Perhaps something new can be started to protect retailers

AMRA... American Marinlife Retailers Association

Drop all service guys, wholesalers, non American businesses, manufacturers and keep only the retailers. Do group buys, punish the evil wholesalers and stop cyanide with you collective power.


Devil - you mean we can't give up oil/technology and go back to horse and buggies? The simple life is gone?

Mary, I'd check on RDO's power buys (group buys) section, maybe you can get a whole mess of awards for real cheap. Hey, if you find a few others, it'll be even cheaper for you.

 

[Anonymous]

Here's the AMDA Membership roster of only B&M retail stores that do not participate in etail:

Jack's Pet

If this is the same Jack's Aquariums & Pets chain known throughout Ohio, they need to be removed from this list as they have a major financial interest in PetSolutions.com.

This one JT?

Jacks Aquarium & Pets
802 N. Orchard Lane
Beavercreek OH 45434

They're a chain store? The one behind Pet Solutions, the company that sells etail livestock and dry goods for dirt cheap prices? No wonder they didn't add a description tho their name.

 

[JT]

This one JT?

Jacks Aquarium & Pets
Beavercreek OH 45434

Yup!

 

[MaryHM]

First off, the Platinum Program didn't change the way the entire organization was originally set up. I never thought the platinum program was going to work because of the lack of being able to police it, but alas I was just one voice. You need to read your bylaws (have you ever read them?). What you are proposing is a complete and total restructuring of the organization. Apples to gorillas trying to compare a Platinum program, which fell under the original direction of AMDA (as stated in the bylaws of the organization) with what is being done now.

As far as the MAC thing- get a clue. Why did I resign from AMDA, Mitch? Huh??? Could it have been BECAUSE the BOD voted to endorse MAC without consulting the membership and I thought that giving an endorsement without the membership's approval was wrong?? YES! That was it!! And it's been public knowledge since the day I resigned. Good grief. What a dumb example to try to use. And when I was on the BOD, we got a newsletter out every quarter and I created the AMDA message board so members could communicate with each other. To imply that I was in on keeping secrets is about the silliest thing I've ever heard. Want to call me a hypocrite? Find a better example. I promoted more openness and better relations with the members than anyone else I know.

I haven't slandered AMDA. I have said that it is basically a do nothing organization and that I wouldn't want to join it. That's not slander, that's truth. If you take things public, expect to get some opinions on it. And not all of those opinions are going to be to your liking. If you didn't want to hear opposing views from non-members you should have kept this issue within the AMDA membership and not stuck it up here for debate.

 

[dizzy]

But the main focus will be on the traditional store front.

The use of the term "traditional store front" will be the spike in the heart of AMDA, IMO. All this arguing over etail, in all the forms that Mary has stated, is silly. This industry is changing and is not going back to the "traditional store front". The internet has changed almost all the retail sectors. If it's changed for the good is a matter for another debate.

This new direction of AMDA seems like sour grapes and the inability or refusal to bring change within their business in order to adapt to the new marketplace driven by the internet.

The spike has already been placed in our hearts and in our backs by the wholesalers who sell to the garage guys. Your damn right we're mad. We may have more ability to bring change than you think. Stay tuned.

 

[logicalreef]

Judging from the attitudes of those here representing AMDA, I don't fore see the membership climbing or the organization ever rising from the dead. Though dizzy swears we have unleashed the monster :roll:

Fend for ourselves? What the heck do you think we do now?

Mary has spoke until I'm blue in the face about how she had the ONLY in your face, net caught, retail protecting, jobber killing, cyanide free from trusted suppliers...and was not supported a bit from AMDA.

Round and round we go

Best wishes, Bryan

 

[dizzy]

Judging from the attitudes of those here representing AMDA, I don't fore see the membership climbing or the organization ever rising from the dead. Though dizzy swears we have unleashed the monster :roll:
Best wishes, Bryan

Bryan it wasn't going anywhere the way it was. We spent the first year working on the netting issues. We had the effort sabotaged at the annual meeting at MACNA. We were told to stick to domestic issues. When the good doctors got exposed here on rdo for the dropshipping scheme we were caught with egg on our face. Our organization was being used to greenwash. The membership was already flat so what have we got to lose. If we can help retailers great, if we fail so what, at least we had the guts to try.
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

Mary has spoke until I'm blue in the face about how she had the ONLY in your face, net caught, retail protecting, jobber killing, cyanide free from trusted suppliers...and was not supported a bit from AMDA.

AMDA had different goals then.

And when I was on the BOD, we got a newsletter out every quarter and I created the AMDA message board so members could communicate with each other.

More evidence that AMDA is dead.

That's not slander, that's truth. If you take things public, expect to get some opinions on it. And not all of those opinions are going to be to your liking.

Couldn't agree more. If AMDA's goals (as an organization) do not agree with your opinions, you'll just have to deal with it. You are more than free to express those opinions to your hearts content here, but forgive us if we do not move things as quickly as you would like. We are more interested in getting things done right, than doing things in a particular time frame.

Anyone know where I can find some cool prizes online for cheap?

Check with the good docs.

The use of the term "traditional store front" will be the spike in the heart of AMDA, IMO. All this arguing over etail, in all the forms that Mary has stated, is silly. This industry is changing and is not going back to the "traditional store front". The internet has changed almost all the retail sectors. If it's changed for the good is a matter for another debate.

I disagree, their are more than enough traditional storefronts that do not do etail to form a viable organization in theory. I practice may be a different story. But the numbers are there. We feel that traditional store fronts have a valid place in the industry, as does etail. No one is saying that the two are mutually exclusive within the industry, That only one can exist and thrive. Etail ain't going anywhere. Traditional storefronts are suffering due to the vast majority's lack of keeping up with the times. There is a new generation of independent pet store on the horizon that will chage the industry even further. The pet industry is growing faster than almost any other retail sector, and marine fish is certainly part of that. The traditional store front is looking into the future and seeing more and more companies fighting over fewer and fewer goodies. We strongly believe that the viability of the industry as a whole rest firmly on the backs of the traditional retailer. If anyone has any evidence that the industry can survive on etail alone I'd like to see it. The industry has grown into the industry it is today because of the sweat, time, and investment of the traditional retailer so chances are the industry would so just fine without etail. This doesn't mean that we think etail will ever go away, but we think the industry needs to change its priorities somewhat. I don't see this as anything other than normal business. You may disagree with the methods, or the goals, or the timing, but there's not much we can do about it now. You may also think we are putting the cart before the horse by opening up the discussion before the details are established. We see it more as having a cart with no horse and trying to decide which direction to go.

Here's the AMDA Membership roster of only B&M retail stores that do not participate in etail:

Thanks for the tip Mary. I'm not sure why you posted it unless you are interested in improving the organization. Do you think (in your honest opinion) that the organization will increase in numbers if it takes a very strong pro retail stance?

Just a suggestion- if you are going to tire of answering questions about something, please don't bring the topic into a public discussion forum. I thought the membership was declining because they were being picked off one by one by etailers. This burning series of questions is still unanswered:

Seems to me that it should have been strictly between the AMDA members until a firm course of action was decided. Have you taken a poll of the AMDA members or just sent out a letter? Is there a vote in the works? How is this new direction going to be decided?

Like I said- I think it already has been decided and this whole "we'll do what the members want" line was a smokescreen. Wasn't Randy trying to do that very same thing and you had a hissy fit, Mitch? I guess as long as your agenda is in place it's fine.

You started this thread. Seems to me that we have been more than gracious in the discussion, especially given that we aren't really in the position to be giving concrete answers yet. It would have been very easy to stonewall, or procrastinate or give a "wait and see answer" that has been the traditional response from such organizations in the past.

The letter was sent out to let people know the thoughts of the BOD. It asked for feedback from the members. The majority of the feedback was positive. None of the feedback gave us any reason to believe that the membership as a whole opposed the idea. Those who didn't respond were assumed to only be in it for the sticker.

So you are right. This whole thing has already been decided by the BOD as the direction we wish to take. We have sent out a letter by email and snail mail to every single member and we have posted it on multiple websites. We will also be publishing it in multiple trade magazines, as well as promoting it at the trade shows and conventions. You seem to be overlooking that fact that we haven't actually done anything yet. It's all talk. We continue to be open to discussion and concerns from the membership, and those who are potential members, (ie this thread). There has been no vote as of yet and that will be decided when we are actually in the position to do something. Currently there is nothing to vote on. But honestly speaking, what is AMDA outside of the BOD and a bunch of stickers? What does it really matter what the BOD of a defunct organization does?

 

[MaryHM]

You are more than free to express those opinions to your hearts content here, but forgive us if we do not move things as quickly as you would like. We are more interested in getting things done right, than doing things in a particular time frame.

Glenn, I never gave you a time frame and I don't care if AMDA changes tomorrow, next year, or never. Like I've stated several times before in this thread, I just brought it up as a topic of discussion. To discuss theoreticals and details. Do whatever you please, it doesn't matter to me one bit. I've lived without the support of AMDA this long, I'm sure I'll continue to survive. The stores that support me do so because they like what I do and they are happy with the quality they receive from me. That's not going to change. I throw out the "if factor x is in place, could I be a member?" not because I want to be a member, but because I'm making a point. I have been asked numerous times to rejoin the AMDA BOD and have politely declined each time. Don't worry- I wouldn't want to be a part of any organization that would have me as a member.

Thanks for the tip Mary. I'm not sure why you posted it unless you are interested in improving the organization. Do you think (in your honest opinion) that the organization will increase in numbers if it takes a very strong pro retail stance?

I posted it to prove a point. You guys were saying in the beginning that the direction AMDA would take would be determined by the members. The more this thread progressed, I realized that was a PR smokescreen. It wouldn't make much sense to take it to the current membership for a vote because you're trying to recreate AMDA for a minority of the members and kick the rest out. It wouldn't pass. Therefore the BOD must take it upon themselves to do as they please with the organization. Sure, the members know about it, but they don't get an official vote or anything. But like you say, most of them don't care enough to respond anyway so what's the point other than just trying to be ethical about it? Will the membership increase dramatically if a strong pro retail stance is taken? Honestly, under the current name I would be doubtful. Until you actually DO something other than talk (like line up distributors who will support you with "power buy" type things), then people are going to be skeptical. Every 2 years they hear the same thing- "It's a NEW AMDA!! Things will be different this time- we promise!!". Then nothing. If you want my really honest opinion, I would ditch AMDA and start a completely new organization. One that doesn't have the tarnished image AMDA does. Legally, you're going to have to rewrite the bylaws anyway so you may as well do it for a brand new organization. And I wouldn't give it any name that has an acronym even remotely close to AMDA. Do away with it and start fresh. Don't drag baggage with you if you truly plan to do something radically different.

Currently there is nothing to vote on

Sure there is:

Dear AMDA member,

We want to completely reorganize the organization and take a pro-traditional store front stance to help protect ourselves in the wake of etailing. We propose that AMDA be made up of only B&M stores that do not participate in etail.

Please check a box below:

____Yes, I want to reorganize AMDA into a B&M/no etail only organization
____No, I want it to stay the same.

Then you move forward from there.

 

[MaryHM]

I just reread Burton's letter to refresh my memory of why we started this discussion in the first place. Several times he talks about how retail only storefronts are what make up most of the membership. Looks like the BOD needs to take a closer look at the member roster. If an outsider like me can spend about 15 minutes doing it, it shouldn't be too tough.

 

[Anonymous]

Like I've stated several times before in this thread, I just brought it up as a topic of discussion. To discuss theoreticals and details.

Then our answers of "We don't know yet" should have been good enough.

You guys were saying in the beginning that the direction AMDA would take would be determined by the members. The more this thread progressed, I realized that was a PR smokescreen.

This is where the discussion of whether or not to start under a new organization comes into play. If we can start with the group we have, there is no reason to change the name. It will be determined by the members whether or not a new organization is necessary. If the group can survive a split with the etailers, we will continue to rebuid the organization. If it cannot, those of us interested will explore a new organization. There is a lot to be said for using an existing foundation as battered as the structure may be. I don't think AMDA has quite the reputation you attribute to it. I'd be willing to bet that many of the stores within in our target group have no real knowledge of it or its beleagered history.

Sure there is:

Dear AMDA member,

I see no difference between that and the letter we sent out. Additionally we went further to back up our claims and reasonings in as clear and explanatory a matter as possible. We didn't include a check box because we were seeking more than a simple yes/no answer. I fail to see how anyone who recieved and read the letter could miss the fact that we were making plans to drastically change the organization and that we were seeking feed back on it. It is not time for an official vote because we are still unclear as to whether or not the changes are viable, and some of the legal issues are up in the air. The letter was simply intended to generate discussion (which it has) and nothing more. So other than the fact that we haven't done it the way you would have, I'm not sure what is left to discuss.[/quote]