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Anonymous

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Plus, regarding seahorses, the hobby has made a considerable effort to captive-raise and market them...

ORA, Ocean-Rider, and hobbiests are continuing to breed these animals, and it doesn't seem right that we are targeted as a 'problem' when the medicinal trade continues to ramble on unchecked.

The CITES ban is good, but it does not solve anything...it doesn't even make a dent.

Peace,

Chip
 
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Anonymous

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marillion":waomj6g7 said:
Plus, regarding seahorses, the hobby has made a considerable effort to captive-raise and market them...

ORA, Ocean-Rider, and hobbiests are continuing to breed these animals, and it doesn't seem right that we are targeted as a 'problem' when the medicinal trade continues to ramble on unchecked.

The CITES ban is good, but it does not solve anything...it doesn't even make a dent.

Peace,

Chip



welcome to cites :wink:
 

John_Brandt

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marillion":3j4qswnz said:
Plus, regarding seahorses, the hobby has made a considerable effort to captive-raise and market them...

ORA, Ocean-Rider, and hobbiests are continuing to breed these animals, and it doesn't seem right that we are targeted as a 'problem' when the medicinal trade continues to ramble on unchecked.

CITES = Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (of Wild Fauna and Flora). You have mentioned domestic aquaculture programs. When they sell domestically they are exempted from CITES. If they seek to obtain wild broodstock, then CITES regulations apply.


marillion":3j4qswnz said:
The CITES ban is good, but it does not solve anything...it doesn't even make a dent.

It's not a ban. It's regulation on International trade of wild Syngnathids. Specimens under 10cm however, are banned. Given that most of the specimens collected for the Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM)trade are smaller than 10cm, it should make a meaningful dent. It also allows the engagement of close monitoring of numbers harvested and sustainability issues. It brings about quotas. It's worth mentioning that there are some countries that supply the trade with Syngnathids that do not subscribe to CITES. The new CITES regulation on Syngnathids may promote the establishment of foreign aquaculture programs to supply the TCM trade.
 

JennM

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The crucial difference in Kalk-logic where it pertains to seahorses, IMO is the destruction factor.

To my knowledge, with the possible exception of seahorses collected in trawl nets as a bycatch of shrimp or other food harvests, seahorse collection is not devastating to the reef. In fact, seahorses don't live on the reef, they live in turtle-grass beds. I don't know of anybody that couldn't catch one with their bare hands, so cyanide is not an issue, nor is crowbars, blasting or other implements of destruction.

IMO the main cause of the depletion of wild seahorse populations IS the TCM trade, perhaps followed by the curio trade. Can't tell you how many dead dried seahorses I've seen in a lifetime, in seaside shops, along with conch shells and sand dollars... I'm guessing that many of those are a bycatch too, but I don't know for sure.

I'm not suggesting that the hobby has no impact but depending on whose study you read, the real impact of the aquarium hobby on wild stocks is much smaller than the proportion of TCM/curios. Compared to the cyanide food fishing versus cyanide MO fishing, it's like comparing apples to bowling balls.

I'm not trying to justify - just put it into perspective.

I do think the hobby has done good things for the seahorse - lots of people including myself, have had seahorses reproduce - in my case rearing the fry was a failure at best - I got one to 6 months despite a pair that had fry every 14 days like clockwork. Many hobbyists are having better success than I did - and we're learning a lot about the animals themselves - which certainly translates to good for the genus somewhere down the line.

They aren't for "every hobbyist" but they are certainly appropriate for those who can set up an appropriate habitat for them, and are willing to give them appropriate care.

JMHO
Jenn
 
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Anonymous

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John_Brandt":xf62gr7k said:
CITES = Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (of Wild Fauna and Flora). You have mentioned domestic aquaculture programs. When they sell domestically they are exempted from CITES. If they seek to obtain wild broodstock, then CITES regulations apply.

I was mentioning it solely for the effort part of the statement, nothing to do with CITES itself. Just saying that we're making an effort to captive-breed, and other industries that acquire seahorses are not.

John_Brandt":xf62gr7k said:
It's not a ban. It's regulation on International trade of wild Syngnathids. Specimens under 10cm however, are banned. Given that most of the specimens collected for the Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM)trade are smaller than 10cm, it should make a meaningful dent. It also allows the engagement of close monitoring of numbers harvested and sustainability issues. It brings about quotas. It's worth mentioning that there are some countries that supply the trade with Syngnathids that do not subscribe to CITES. The new CITES regulation on Syngnathids may promote the establishment of foreign aquaculture programs to supply the TCM trade.

So, in effect it makes even less of an impact, since not all nations subscribe to CITES. Why even bother, then, when a country can just say "Uhhhh.no thanks."?

Peace,

Chip
 

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