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Aren't cards available CB now?
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Anonymous
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GratefulDiver":p7q6o4vl said:
Yes, but that means very little as very little are actually produced and available. To a hobbyist, 10 cb cardinals sounds like a lot. To a store, eh, 1 shipment. To a wholesaler, won't even bother, 10 can't fill 1 order and will start 100 fights with those who couldn't get them.
Why do we feel The Banggais Are juiced? They are easy to collect with a pole net from a boat in shallow water. Yes, the urchins do get in the way . But its not like the fish are hard to collect. Peter have you any test data on these fish ? I smell another urban rumor...........There are far too many mommy banggais with mouth loads of baby cardanals in her mouth making it to the USA {the tiny babys cant survive a cyanide exposer} Ps , Vanuatu has nice blue tangs :wink: want some?
I can't believe I am saying this, but I agree with Kalk. I see so many baby bangaii come in the mouths of moms each week, alive and doing fine. Just the other day a customer thanked me for the 6 baby bangaii that came in with their mother.Kalkbreath":cq2el42r said:
clarionreef
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- San Francisco
Dudes,
And sometimes they come in terrible and die by the thousands as the long boats arrive from the far North of Indonesia. But...good ones that make it can also mate in the facility.
Overstock may stay in-country for a second week...and recover futher. Plenty of 'good fish' are caught w/ cyanide...
My info comes from the source...not from looking at the best of fish that ran the guantlet.
Steve
PS. If cyanide improved survival...the little coral killing feature it carries alone makes it a very nasty thing to promote.
And sometimes they come in terrible and die by the thousands as the long boats arrive from the far North of Indonesia. But...good ones that make it can also mate in the facility.
Overstock may stay in-country for a second week...and recover futher. Plenty of 'good fish' are caught w/ cyanide...
My info comes from the source...not from looking at the best of fish that ran the guantlet.
Steve
PS. If cyanide improved survival...the little coral killing feature it carries alone makes it a very nasty thing to promote.
JT":wteyj4xt said:
I want to say this nicely so Glenn doesn't get upset. Guys you are letting your ignorance show. The daddies are the ones who brood the babies. BTW I was also skeptical about Bangaii cardinals being caught with cyanide. I asked the Indonesian representative at MO if this was the case. He said that yes they were indeed captured via cyanide. Even if they come in good they are dying like flies shortly thereafter. I suspect a bacterial infection, but who knows?
Mitch
Sorry, didn't mean to derail the thread.. (Though I guess its shifted tracks to another thread for the most part anyway..)
I'm just curious why no one is bothering to breed them out commercially.. - Are they so cheap that no one dares to take that sort of financial risk?
I'm just curious why no one is bothering to breed them out commercially.. - Are they so cheap that no one dares to take that sort of financial risk?
I think that's an excellent question, Grateful. I mean c'mon, they're the guppies of the marine world! They breed like crazy! You'd think it would be easier to produce these in mass quantity than the egg layers (clowns, etc...). Maybe someone from ORA can clue us in. There's got to be some factor we're overlooking. The wild caught ones aren't really that cheap.
Peter, any evidence to back up Steve? CDT. They are so easy to collect that there is no reason to use juice. They cost about one buck/fifty {FOB Sulw}. Its the multiple freight costs that jack up the costs . Just getting them to Bali or Jakarta adds to the cost. plus they die about the same as any Cardinals during transport. Steve, Are you thinking that Pajama or flame cardinals are also juice collected? There is not enough time for the fish to be breeding in the holding tanks Steve. {or privacy!}
Kalk, yup, he's talking about Bangaiis, straight from some one who knows the divers. These aren't being shipped via Sulw, they're being brought into Indo via the long boats and shipped outa Jakarta and Bali.
Kalk, when Steve mentioned long boats and Bangaiis, and knowing those fish come from Sulw., why did you come to the conclusion (FOB Sulw) that these ones were being shipped from Sulw? Hint
: long boats don't work there own shores typically
Kalk, when Steve mentioned long boats and Bangaiis, and knowing those fish come from Sulw., why did you come to the conclusion (FOB Sulw) that these ones were being shipped from Sulw? Hint
: long boats don't work there own shores typically
Kalk, My information is the same as Steve's. Longboats (funded by the cyanide cartel) spread far and wide over Indo. They bring back bangaii cardinalfish to Bali. The only exception are the net-collectors from Les (situated on the Island of Bali).
My source of information is Ferdinand Cruz, who trained collectors near Manado, Sulawezi to use nets. He wrote a report documenting the use of cyanide by both food fish and aquarium fish collectors in Indo. Another report documenting the widespread use of cyanide was by Narikome Bentley for WWF.
My source of information is Ferdinand Cruz, who trained collectors near Manado, Sulawezi to use nets. He wrote a report documenting the use of cyanide by both food fish and aquarium fish collectors in Indo. Another report documenting the widespread use of cyanide was by Narikome Bentley for WWF.
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
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- San Francisco
And...
Majestic angels are virtually all caught with cyanide as well...wether you see it or not. Yet, there are plenty of 'good ones' that hold up.
If you see some good ones, does that mean they were not caught with cyanide?
Of course not. Its just that they weren't burnt so badly to cause them to be ruined. Many are...many aren't.
Its the environmental problem...not the fish problem that the outside world condemns us for.
Steve
Majestic angels are virtually all caught with cyanide as well...wether you see it or not. Yet, there are plenty of 'good ones' that hold up.
If you see some good ones, does that mean they were not caught with cyanide?
Of course not. Its just that they weren't burnt so badly to cause them to be ruined. Many are...many aren't.
Its the environmental problem...not the fish problem that the outside world condemns us for.
Steve
I still see little evidence that the cardinals are being juiced. I understand that some of the collectors whom use cyanide to collect hard to reach species like Blue tangs and angels. But that does not mean they collect fire shrimp with juice , just cuase they have it in the boat ....Bangii cards are shipped out on aircraft as well , maybe your close friends whom use the long boats collect cards too ......but that does not mean all the fish leave in the hull of a boat from that area . I also find it hard to believe that the collectors are telling you they collect all their fish with cyanide....... As a collector There is little advantage of admitting such a thing is true. I gather that what you are hearing is second hand ...... most likely from other collectors..competing collectors. Why is it that you have such an open relationship with these long boat operators that they would devulge such a dark secrete to you? :wink:
Peter , I asked about CDT test data .......I understand that there are many people that think this fish or that fish is always cyanide collected. But Is there any real evidence ? The fact that so many Babys make it to retail , seems to counter the idea that most of these fish are juiced.PeterIMA":3v75hhuu said:
No , the Angels are collected one by one. These Cardinals are collected in large groups . Each group is either collected with cyanide or not. That means for each daddy with an intact mouth load......there is a group of fish {the group he was scooped up with } which also were not juice collected. Which also means that if some of the fish are collected without juice then why are you sure ANY of these fish are collected with poison?cortez marine":280akywo said:
huh, a non collector telling a 30+ year experienced collector how its done.
No no wait, kalk is right, how can you be sure? I mean, whos actually been to the moon and personally seen the lunar landing site and all the evidance left behind? Ah, its faked, just like the cyanide issue, all fake.
No no wait, kalk is right, how can you be sure? I mean, whos actually been to the moon and personally seen the lunar landing site and all the evidance left behind? Ah, its faked, just like the cyanide issue, all fake.
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