Do you really think its possible to squirt the fish inbetween the spines of the urchins.............without killing the urchins? If the fish were being collected with cyanide , there would be about one dead urchin for every five cardinals collected. That would leave thousands of dead urchin shells as a tell tale sign that squirt bottles had been used there.......................I have never once heard of an account of some one finding thousands of dead urchin shells in the cardinal collection areas...... :wink: As for the total number of collected cardinals , take the published landed rates and then account for the Heavy DOA rates associated with this species. Then account for how many standing stocks there are and do the math.