INDUSTRY, Nero fiddles while Rome burns!

[MaryHM]

We're talking about fighting a bill, Wayne. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Just because a bill is introduced doesn't mean it's going to pass as is or even at all.

 

[JeremyR]

The roof... the roof.. the roof is on fire! The roof... the roof.. the roof is on fire! We don't need no water, let the mo(*&(&*er burn.. burn... burn.. burn mo(*&(&*er... burn!

 

[Anonymous]

Bloodhound Gang!!!

:lol:

Peace,

Chip

 

[clarionreef]

Wayne,
Every thing you know about this issue came from reform oriented industry people.
They are a minority to be sure and may have a wee bit of a problem convincing the rest of the trade and the...how did you put it? [ LA thugs? ] to see things your way.
My fear is that it won't matter how reform oriented some of us are if even 'supporters' lump us all together in a mindless prejudice akin to racism.
Netcaught or not...we are cast as being all the same by ignorant hysterical people...and groups.
My quandry is this then. Do I oppose the bill despite its positive moral impulses and meat axe approach to killing us all and sorting us out later...?
Or do I oppose it as the obvious lame duck ploy it is at the end of term where it has zero chance of getting out of committee [ much less getting to the floor of either house before the regime change.]
Since it knowingly has no chance in this congress...why then was it proposed?
Because...it helps to define Rep. Case as a good guy and a supporter of the oceans cause and it co-helps MAC to shepard the doubters and stragglers into a pen where they can all be saved. The only thing missing is the fish supply that was supposed to have been here from the beginning to cement the deal.
Still....the old plan and timetable had to go forth they felt with or without the fish.
Steve
Ironic that the week this comes out, the mayor of Cagayancillo
kicks MAC out of his municipality. Rep. Case doesn't know about that or the others. His goals are loftier then the 'little stuff' that prevents them from becoming relized.

 

[naesco]

Wayne,
Every thing you know about this issue came from reform oriented industry people.
They are a minority to be sure and may have a wee bit of a problem convincing the rest of the trade and the...how did you put it? [ LA thugs? ] to see things your way.
My fear is that it won't matter how reform oriented some of us are if even 'supporters' lump us all together in a mindless prejudice akin to racism.
Netcaught or not...we are cast as being all the same by ignorant hysterical people...and groups.
My quandry is this then. Do I oppose the bill despite its positive moral impulses and meat axe approach to killing us all and sorting us out later...?
Or do I oppose it as the obvious lame duck ploy it is at the end of term where it has zero chance of getting out of committee [ much less getting to the floor of either house before the regime change.]
Since it knowingly has no chance in this congress...why then was it proposed?
Because...it helps to define Rep. Case as a good guy and a supporter of the oceans cause and it co-helps MAC to shepard the doubters and stragglers into a pen where they can all be saved. The only thing missing is the fish supply that was supposed to have been here from the beginning to cement the deal.
Still....the old plan and timetable had to go forth they felt with or without the fish.
Steve
Ironic that the week this comes out, the mayor of Cagayancillo
kicks MAC out of his municipality. Rep. Case doesn't know about that or the others. His goals are loftier then the 'little stuff' that prevents them from becoming relized.

Steve and others.

I refer to Industry as the persons who are responsible for the destruction of the reefs and those who use cyanide for catchment. Included are those persons in the industry stateside who import fish from these criminals.
Reeform is a wide net. We do not all have to agree but we cannot support the above.
It is impossible in every post to exclude Tom Dick and Harry if you know what I mean.

 

[JeremyR]

Do they have loony bins in Canada, and if so.. do they allow the inmates internet access?

 

[naesco]

Do they have loony bins in Canada, and if so.. do they allow the inmates internet access?

No they have been banned because those who supported them sat on their duff and did nothing and allowed it to happen.

Instead of approaching the issue on a serious basis, they fiddled.

 

[Anonymous]

You banned loony bins in Canada? Why? What wrong with loonies? Why does Canada embrace the loonies? Who supported the loonies thru this? Whats reeform positiion on this? I think thats utterly wrong. What are loonies to do, now that they don't have homes or internet connections.

 

[dizzy]

Do they have loony bins in Canada, and if so.. do they allow the inmates internet access?

No they have been banned because those who supported them sat on their duff and did nothing and allowed it to happen.

Instead of approaching the issue on a serious basis, they fiddled.

Sounds like the special the NRA ran featuring the English sportmen who has lost their right to hunt, when their guns were taken away by poorly written laws. Don't let this happen to our hobby.

 

[JT]

This reminds me of another excellent song:


Times have changed,
Our kids are getting worse
They won't obey their parents,
They just want to fart and curse. Should we blame the government, or blame society, or should we blame the images on tv?
No!
Blame Canada! Blame Canada

With all their beady little eyes,
their flapping heads so full of lies
Blame Canada!
Blame Canada!
We need to form a full assault, it's Canada's fault! Don't blame me, for my son Stan, He saw the darn cartoon, and now he's off to
join the klan! And my boy eric once, had my picture on his shelf, but now when I see him, he tells me to **** myself.

Well, Blame Canada!

It seems that everything's gone wrong since
Canada came along
Blame Canada!
Blame Canada! They're not even a real country anyway. My son could of been a doctor or a lawyer, it's a true, Instead he burned up like a piggie on a barbecue. Should we blame the matches? Should we blame the fire, or the doctor who allowed him to expire.
Heck no!
Blame Canada!
Blame Canada!
With all their hockey hubaloo and that ***** Anne Murray too. Blame Canada!
Shame on Canada!

The smut we must stop
The trash we must smash
Laughter and fun
must all be undone
We must blame them and cause a fuss
Before somebody thinks of blaming us!

 

[Anonymous]

ROTFL @ JT!!!

Also, for a second there I thought that it was stated that Canada had banned Looney Tunes. Everyone has a right to see Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck...I was about to head on up there and whoop Wayne's ass...



Peace,

Chip

 

[PeterIMA]

Actually, Loonies (one dollar coins) are widely used in Canada, not like those Susan B. Anthony thingies.

Is it just Canadians that have a conscience? I think Naesco has some valid points. He did not invent the draft legislation. An American by the name of Case did. We will be better off if the legislation is enacted with some modifications to allow for a gradual phase-in period.

The alternative is that the trade will shut down until ReefCheck and the MAC figure out how to implement underwater surveys and sustainable management plans.

Peter

 

[clarionreef]

Peter...
Shut down until they "figure it out?"
You mean shut down like an electric fan or a light switch?
More accurately it would be like a temporary shutdown of the sun for this trade.
That would kill the trade and all the dry goods dealers and manufacturers so far 'uninvolved'.
They, MAC and REEFCHECK will never figure it out, especially in a way that the scientific community would accept. Unless, it doesn't have to really hold up to peer review that is
Steve

 

[PeterIMA]

Steve, I agree that any shutdown however temporary that goes on for more than a month will put many companies in the MO trade out of business.
My point was that the requirement for scientific studies and surveys under the legislation would be disastrous if they are not phased in prior to enactment of the legislation. In other words, the studies should be done "before" the legislation is enacted. Then, it might be possible to claim that certain reef areas were "sustainable" based on existing data. The government agencies(particularly municipal) such as the Fisheries and Aquatic Resource Managment Councils (FARMCs) in the Philippines could ratify/endorse management plans prepared by the fishers and/or the NGOs (MAC and ReefCheck among others). There is an need for sufficient time to put managment plans in place before the U.S. government declares that the trade in reef organisms is illegal (except in the case where there is a management plan in place).

As far as Indonesia is concerned policy changes (e.g., decentralization of fisheries management) still have not been fully implemented. So, there is a need for the U.S. government to take these concerns into consideration before it implements H.R. 4928.

Peter Rubec

 

[clarionreef]

OK,
THE WRITINGS ON THE WALL;

FOR SALE
TROPICAL FISH WHOLESALE WAREHOSE FACILITY
2,500 SQ FT. OF TANKS, GEAR, PUMPS, CONTACTS AND SUPPLIERS.
OWNER MOTIVATED....
60K
Got to leave to avoid death by strangulation, over regulation by several tiers of authorities and forced certification at gunpoint by inferiors.
dial 1 800 lac-tose
leave message

 

[naesco]

Peter...
Shut down until they "figure it out?"
You mean shut down like an electric fan or a light switch?
More accurately it would be like a temporary shutdown of the sun for this trade.
That would kill the trade and all the dry goods dealers and manufacturers so far 'uninvolved'.
They, MAC and REEFCHECK will never figure it out, especially in a way that the scientific community would accept. Unless, it doesn't have to really hold up to peer review that is
Steve

They need to shut down the Phillipine and Indonesia trade now. Of course there will be problems created both at home (cheeres) and on the islands (we have to provide a safety net for them until everythin is in place but nothing, absolutely nothing justifies the continued destruction of the reefs and the creatures that dwell therein.

 

[naesco]

sorry

 

[Anonymous]

sorry

Mary, Wayne just apologized to you for everything he's ever said.



Peace,

Chip

 

[clarionreef]

Wayne,
Its a good thing no one listens to you.
You say some awful things...
Just now, to justify the violence to a thousands of fishermans incomes as your shut em all down notion involves...you added we have to provide them a "safety net."

We have to provide them with a safety net? And to maintain thousands of people until they can get into dynamite fishing or gillnet fishing...how much would that be do you suppose?
You will sell all your assets to help set it in motion of course?
How can you be so cavalier and insensitive to other peoples lives?
How can you say such things and hope to be taken seriously.
That safety net remark was a lie. You didn't mean it and just want to soften the damage you prescribe having just relized that you want to bring ruin to the tropical fisherman who already left food fishing.
To take away people livlihoods with no intention or plan to sustitute another is cruel, insensitive and unAmercian.
You give real social thinkers and liberals a bad name and move us futher to the right.
Retraining is the answer...converting the fisherman without interruption. Bouncing from one loopy tangent to the next has not helped our cause...and that cause has been a consistant drumbeat that finally may gain support.
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Wayne,
Every thing you know about this issue came from reform oriented industry people.
They are a minority to be sure and may have a wee bit of a problem convincing the rest of the trade and the...how did you put it? [ LA thugs? ] to see things your way.
My fear is that it won't matter how reform oriented some of us are if even 'supporters' lump us all together in a mindless prejudice akin to racism.
Netcaught or not...we are cast as being all the same by ignorant hysterical people...and groups.
My quandry is this then. Do I oppose the bill despite its positive moral impulses and meat axe approach to killing us all and sorting us out later...?
Or do I oppose it as the obvious lame duck ploy it is at the end of term where it has zero chance of getting out of committee [ much less getting to the floor of either house before the regime change.]
Since it knowingly has no chance in this congress...why then was it proposed?
Because...it helps to define Rep. Case as a good guy and a supporter of the oceans cause and it co-helps MAC to shepard the doubters and stragglers into a pen where they can all be saved. The only thing missing is the fish supply that was supposed to have been here from the beginning to cement the deal.
Still....the old plan and timetable had to go forth they felt with or without the fish.
Steve
Ironic that the week this comes out, the mayor of Cagayancillo
kicks MAC out of his municipality. Rep. Case doesn't know about that or the others. His goals are loftier then the 'little stuff' that prevents them from becoming relized.

Steve and others.

I refer to Industry as the persons who are responsible for the destruction of the reefs and those who use cyanide for catchment. Included are those persons in the industry stateside who import fish from these criminals.
Reeform is a wide net. We do not all have to agree but we cannot support the above.
It is impossible in every post to exclude Tom Dick and Harry if you know what I mean.

then if you have any fishkeeping supplies, from food, to nets, to a tank, to livestock, you are that very industry :wink: