Any of you guys have customers like this?

[mark@mac]

Ok,

I gotta chime in here too... I'm sure some of you have experienced this.. I have more than once!

I had a retail AND service company... I often refused to sell or order certain species for customers....

I get "the call" or worse yet, arrive at the clients home to service the tank, low and behold, the fish have ich!!! Where did it come from??? Gee, probably that new fish I told them they shouldn't buy or I wouldn't order for them....... I hate to think about all the nice healthy fish I sold only to have them perish at the hands of their impatient and/or dimwitted owners, all over an EASILY preventable situation.......

:roll:

 

[JennM]

Yep, been there, done that. Had a service client buy sick fish someplace - the fish that we'd helped them choose in our store were all doing fine - but everything got sick. They tried to treat it themselves using some crap that was 'reef safe', but pepper-based and grossly ineffective. When their new fish began to die, they stopped trying to fudge their mistake and called us. Then they were angry that we charged them to go there, and for the medications that worked to cure the problem. Ironically all the fish I sold them prior to this, pulled through but all the new ones died.

I nearly had to send them to a collection agency to pay their bill - they dumped our service after that, because they felt we shouldn't have charged them to drop everything and run over there to fix the problem they created. For several months before that, the tank ran fine - we sold it to them, installed it, maintained it and oversaw the fish that were placed in it - no problems til they ventured out on their own.

After that I added a disclaimer to my maintenance agreement stating that if they purchased fish from anywhere else, it would void any warranty on our fish, and we were not responsible to treat illness - that would be done at their risk and expense.

Jenn

 

[Rascal]

I had a client with a 150 gal aquarium. I did a service call and did a 50% water change. The customer (husband and wife) came in with a water sample a few days later. Everything checks out good, and the few fish they already had looked well. I suggested they go slow as they eyeballed a really nice powder blue tang. I tried talking them OUT of it for the time being but they weren't listening. They bought the fish and off they went.

I get a phone call a few days later and the tang isn't doing well. Told the wife to bring in a water sample, which she did. Nitrites were pegged so I asked if they were over feeding. She insisted they weren't. I offered for her to bring the fish back in so I could quarantine it. She didn't

The next day HE calls me, pissed, because the tang died. I ended up doing a house call (see Jenn, we are very much alike) only to find an aquarium stocked with 13 fish...none of which came from me. She finally admitted that she went shopping at three other stores after she left mine to get all the fish, including a 7" clown trigger which was loaded with ich. She said he was really 'friendly' and liked to 'chase' the other guys. He also HAD the spots when she bought him...apparently the kid said it would go away with a few drops of AMQUEL.

Ya think I got reimbursed for that house call?

 

[Anonymous]

What do you do for something like that? Are you really expected to take the hit because people refuse to listen and do whatever the hell they feel like? I'm just not the type of person to not say anything if I was in that situation.

 

[JennM]

Why is it that the irresponsible people and stores never bear the brunt of responsibility for bonehead manoeuvers like that?

$50 says that none of the other stores they bought their fish from would even provide a 'house call' service...

I've given away the odd house call for a good customer if I feel they've learned a lesson - we give the advice we give for good reason - for the benefit of the *customer*, not just the creatures we sell. Some of those people still have to learn the hard way. In my jaded old age I'm less forthcoming with the complimentary consultations... simply because I'm tired of being the fall guy when people do stupid things - particularly if I've explained why they shouldn't have done it, before they did it.

I still do complimentary initial consultations and estimates... but for a while I was being 'used' by lazy hobbyists who had me come out for free to 'look' at their systems, and nothing ever came of it. For a while when I was overwhelmed by 'free' consultation requests, I did charge them a $50 fee, which I'd be happy to refund as a credit toward future service or upgrades. That stemmed the flow of freeloaders for a while. I just don't have the time to go and look at every ghettoed system in the metro Atlanta area.

I used to work on a lot of crappy systems - stuff that somebody else set up that was inadequate, poorly designed, etc. Usually they dumped their old service when things went wrong - so I'd go in and see what the problems were, offer an estimate for repairs/upgrades and if they didn't go with that, I would limp the system around what they had. No more. If they don't want to spend the money to make the system viable to support what they are able to keep, I'm not interested. In the beginning when I was desparate for business, I worked on a lot of "Macgyvered" systems...

It's unfortunate that people don't check on client references or compare systems when they shop - but even at that, people who do shop around will be offered various configurations. Example: customer asks me for a quote on a 75 gallon system, they want to keep 'Nemo" and perhaps some anemones (that drives me nuts!). So I quote them on a reef-ready system with a sump and a protein skimmer and a quantity of live rock and T5 or compact fluorescent lighting - enough to support some leathers and LPS - sort of an intermediate type system. Well, then they go to the shop down the street who quotes them on a 75-g standard tank with a Fluval and a dual regular output strip light. Of course the other store's quote is cheaper - but they don't realize they're comparing apples with bowling balls. So they buy junk equipment because it's cheaper - then in a few months when they've lost 10 nemos, had their anemone sucked up into the fluval and they have nitrates up the wazzoo, they call me asking me why.

Jenn

 

[Rascal]

Well in this case I didn't persue it. I was on the way home, and didn't even get my hands wet. I heard they lost all the fish over the next few weeks and the aquarium is sitting there empty.

The truth is I am confident enough in my abilities, but I'm not a preacher or a used car salesman. Either you take my advice or not.

You know the saying 'the customer is always right'? Well, not in my store. Not to sound cocky, I just know my abilities. My best customers are the ones who sought my advice, followed it, and demonstrated patience.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah Rascal, I hate that "customer is always right" saying. To me anyway it seems the people who throw that in my face are those that are trying to do what pretty much equates to stealing from me. Pulling a fast one, etc.

My neighbor is a landscaper. He put a pond in his yard a few years ago. Before he did he asked me for advice. I gave it to him. He followed nothing. He continued to ask me for advice once it was setup....did the exact opposite of everything I told him. That pond has never had clear water or a problem free week since the day it was first filled. Fish gotta come in during the winter cause when I told him it needed to be deeper he didn't believe me.

My friends do the exact same thing. They come to my home, see my tanks and ask for advice setting up their own. Shoot just two weeks ago some folks were over and the girl was moaning she wanted a tank. her boyfriend said to first get a book! I couldn't believe it! He's not even into fish. But I agreed...a book was needed first. Well my wife calls me at work and tells me I have to go to their house and see what's wrong cause she went and bought a tank and the very same day put three fish in it.

It freaking drives me insane! I feel like asking my neighbor for advice on my lawn and then do everything he tells me not to do and see how he feels. This is what I do! Why do people continue to ask for advice then refuse to believe I have the slightest clue on what I am talking about?!

Especially customers! If a store is trying to talk you OUT of making a purchase, damnit that should tell you something right there since most get wary that a store is just out to make a buck. But what do many people think instead? "I'll just go down the street and buy it there"

Oooooh I could scream! LOL. I'd love to partake in some of the stories here and while I did tell a couple...I worry that if I really get the ball rolling the hammer will eventually fall.

 

[JennM]

What do you do for something like that? Are you really expected to take the hit because people refuse to listen and do whatever the hell they feel like? I'm just not the type of person to not say anything if I was in that situation.

Short answer is it depends. If the customer is likely to return and learn from his/her error, I'll eat the service call fee - ONCE. I'll invoice them, but mark the regular price on it, and zero it out as a "courtesy". In other words, show them what they *should* have paid for the call, and impess them that I'm willing to waive that this once. I think of it as an 'investment' -- sacrifice a few bucks now, for future sales to this customer.

If they do it again (whever the silly offence was), then I charge them my regular rate. If they pay it, all is well... if they don't, then I consider the bridge pretty much burned. I'll write them a polite but concise letter, informing them that their payment is due, and their account (if it's a regular maintenance customer) is suspended until the account is caught up. If they opt to ignore that, I'll send them one more reminder, respectfully requesting payment, or the matter will be placed in the hands of a collection agency, and this could adversely affect their credit score. In all but 2 instances, that letter usually gets somebody off their tooshie to pay the account pronto. In that event if they wish to continue with maintenance service, they need to pay as they go - no more net 15 (my standard terms). Usually once we get to that point, it's moot anyway as either they or I have terminated our agreement. Once somebody gets in a funk like that, it's more of a liability - who's to say they don't nuke their own tank right after my technician leaves, then try to blame us? It hasn't happened (knock on wood) but once that good feeling's gone, it's usually best for all concerned to just part on decent terms.

Again that's only happened to me in a very few instances (probably less than 5) in nearly 5 years of operation - so that's not too bad. Most people work together in good faith.

It has also been my experience that *most* people want to work things out, and will be willing to take whatever reasonable measures to do so, but when somebody becomes adversarial over something that is obviously their own fault, and we've worked in good faith with them, usually it doesn't end nicely.

Fortunately I've only had a few instances like this, but I don't take them lying down. Other than the 2 which I sent to collections (one was an individual, the other was a business - a restaurant), I've had one other like this that used to bounce checks on me. She "dumped" me because she didn't like the way I spoke with her when I called her to explain that her last check was returned unpaid by the bank - this was the fourth consecutive time this had happened. She'd settled previous arrears with cash, then gave me a check for the current due (!!). When the check was returned unpaid, I telephoned her and explained that the check had been returned, and I could no longer accept checks from her, but if she wished to pay by cash, money order or credit card, that would be fine (her Amex was declined too BTW!). So 2 weeks after this conversation, and the day before I was due to go there again, she called to 'fire' me. She had no complaints about my work - just that she didn't like my attitude about all the bounced checks!!! Sheeze... one can only be *so* tactful when dealing with somebody who can't balnce a checkbook and by the third strike she should have been out... I'd been contemplating dumping the client for a while - I didn't need the stress of returned checks, so she saved me the bother. I accepted her wish to terminate service, told her if I could be any help in the future, please do not hesitate to call, and bid her good day. No harsh words, just matter-of-fact. There was no point in grovelling not to be let go - she'd made up her mind, her feelings were what they were, and to argue that point wouldn't have solved anything, so I accepted my dismissal gracefully and was actually quite relieved when I rang off with her.

That wasn't good enough - 20 minutes later she phoned me back to pick a fight - she insulted my children (who used to accompany me on school holidays - and this was something that I had pre-cleared with all my clients - my kids brought books of their own to read and sat quietly while I did my work.) She said my kids never said anything to her (duh, they weren't supposed to - I told them to be seen and not heard!), and she insulted them, trying to goad me into an argument perhaps to salve her own conscience and make all this 'my fault'. I politely told her that I did not need to be having this conversation, as it served no valuable purpose and rang off. I guess she'd been expecting me to grovel to keep her business - when in actual fact I was relieved to be done with her.

So she still owed me a matter of $70, for that check that bounced. I still had her bad check. We both dealt at the same large bank... so each day I'd go into the bank with the check and ask the teller to verify funds. You can deposit a check twice, but if it bounces twice, you're done... so I checked funds each day - without depositing it. It took 2 weeks but the day the check was good, I asked the teller to certify it. This should have cost me $7, but I'd rather have $63 out of $70 owed to me than nothing... well the teller certified it for me, no charge She'd seen me check it each day for the whole 2 weeks - so I got my full $70. Want to bet that check caused a major chain reaction in this woman's bank account?

OH and they lived in a $500K home, had a $20K pony for one of their kids, she drove an Excursion and he drove a Jag... so I didn't feel too badly about going after my piddly $70.

All this happened about 3 years ago. Several months ago, a man called me asking questions about stuff I had in stock, and he came in - I recognized him but couldn't place him. When he was ready to check out, I asked if he was in our customer database - he didn't know, but didn't think so - so I asked him his last name... he told me - then my light bulb came on -- same guy (I used to deal with his wife.) I asked him if he remembered me - he didn't. I told him I cleaned his tank for 2 years - still no recollection. Something tells me that as soon as he saw me he realized... but was likely too embarrassed to say anything. He paid that day with a credit card and the transaction went through.

LOL - some people. How do you NOT remember somebody who worked in your home every other week for 2 years? Plenty of times he was there when I came to do the tank... perhaps his memory is "selective".

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

Yep... I diplomatically bought him a ticket for a guilt trip He was unphased.

Said he buys all his fish from me - well that's nice - fish and RO water - but he's also perusing an onliner for an RO unit and asked if I could match or beat the price - I told him to give me the specific model and I'd see, but truthfully I probably won't be able to, even selling at cost. Then I lose his $3.50/week RO purchase.

It's my main focus to help hobbyists - that's what sets me apart from the Petcos and Petsmarts and whatnot... but as I explained to him - that doesn't keep my lights on.

Oh well... thankfully he's in the minority... but I won't be as inclined to bump him to the front of the queue for a free water test going forward. Perhaps next time before I try to figure out what his issues are, I'll ask him what Petsmart said... (and he's got a marine tank...)

Jenn

you test water for free?!!!!


:lol:


i learned of the folly of that years ago- all tests that are simple and easy-1.00, all others, like Ca, etc.-2.00 per test


watch how many kits you sell then

if they ***** and moan-ask 'em how much it costs for the kit, and the time to test-if they say it's no cost and bother-they shouldn't need to come to you in the first place.

 

[Anonymous]

After being back in retail for the last 6 months, I think doing anything for free (besides giving advice in the store) is a bad idea. It sends the message that your time isn't worth anything. I understand the reasoning behind it - added value so customers come back and spend, but I think it sets a tone that is already to prevalent.
Same with discounts. If you give them often, they become expected.

My favorite customer story (or the one that comes to mind right now).
Guy wants a box turtle. I ask him if he has a set up for it. He says he will keep it in a recycling box. I ask if he has a heat lamp. He says 'lamp'. I say before I will sell you a turtle you need to buy the equipment to keep it alive. He says he will later. I say 'I won't sell you a turtle unless you have the equipment to keep it alive. He says 'I want a turtle'. I say I understand that, but I am not going to sell it to you if its going to die because you don't have the equipment to keep it alive. He looks at me like I am crazy and asks to see the manager. I don't even tell the manager what happened except that I won't sell the guy a turtle because I know he will go through the same questions I did and reach the same conclusion. He did, and I was happy. I am sure the guy went to another store and just got a turtle.

 

[JennM]

Actually I sell plenty of test kits. I encourage people to test regularly on their own, and some bring in their water for a 'second opinion'.

Vitz, you and I have had this discussion before, about water testing, however it was in a different context.

My thinking is this - I guarantee my fish and corals. However, if the client's water isn't up to par, that voids the guarantee. If I know before I bag a specimen, that the client's water is OK, then that reduces my odds of having a claim on a lost specimen. If the customer's water is putrid, I help them get the water right *first*, thus saving the customer the money of a lost specimen, the obvious senseless loss of life, and less claims for deceased specimens.

The hassle that prevents is well worth the 5 minutes invested in performing a free test, and the manufacturer of the tests provides me with reagents - and I sell a ton of those kits because "that's what I use and recommend". Win/Win all around.

I don't routinely do tests for Calcium, and I won't do tests for Magnesium and Strontium - people can buy tests for that - ditto with Iodine, Silicate, Iron or any other weird parameter. But for basics like Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, Alk and Phosphate, I do those for free.

Most stores in the area provide these for free. I know one used to charge - I think customers got one freebie a month (how did they keep track?!) and then it was $1 per test afterward or whatnot.

In the bigger picture, I think it's a smart investment to test at no charge, for the sake of the creatures involved. And like I tell people - they need to have their own kit, because if something looks wrong at 10:30 on a Sunday night and I got a life and went home - a test performed at home can rule water quality in or out as a possible cause.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

do what you want


but you're educating your customers to EXPECT free-they will not limit it to test kits-now your time is also free


when i changed policies to charging for tests-you know what happened?

people bitched and screamed and moaned and threatened to never come back etc etc


guess what happened ?


they all started happily paying for tests, and eventually got their own kits, and they also wasted my time alot less w/ b.s. in general

why should ANY of your time be free?

remember what robin willliams says:

you can please some of the people some of the time, and the rest can go jerk off

your problem is that you're trying to please everybody, and educating them that it's their RIGHT to expect such, even at your own expense

but it's your store, and your life

 

[JennM]

do what you want

Yep, that's why I'm my own boss... and a slave to the customer.

but you're educating your customers to EXPECT free-they will not limit it to test kits-now your time is also free

I disagree. I'm teaching my customers that in order to keep fish alive, their water has to be good. Like I said, most (not all... but most) of my customers have their own test kits, and they keep an eye on their parameters themselves. The test for me is to humour me before I'll sell them something Seriously my regulars who have had issues with water quality typically bring me a sample to be sure. People who I have a rapport with, who do test their own water - I don't bug them for a sample - they are educated enough - and if something *does* perish, they know to bring in the body and a water sample for me to check, and if it happens to check out - then we replace the deceased.

When new people come to me from Walmart with their cloudy tank with 38 fish, I test their water to SHOW them that what I assumed was the case based on their phone call, is so. Then I show them a test kit they can use themselves, at home. I explain the nitrogen cycle and tell them what to look for in their own tests, and if they are ready to buy more fish down the road, please bring a sample so I can verify that they're ready. It's presented to them in a friendly way, not condescending, but it covers my hiney so that Mr. Walmart shopper doesn't buy a pile more fish from them and 3 from me and accuse me of wiping out their tank. Chemistry doesn't lie -- unless they're bringing me new water, not water out of their tank... and I can't say that's happened yet (knocking on wood).

when i changed policies to charging for tests-you know what happened?

people bitched and screamed and moaned and threatened to never come back etc etc

Well with other stores offering complimentary tests, I'd be shooting myself in the foot. People will drive another 30 miles and spend $5 more in gas to get a free test :roll: Just like the guy who was off to Petsmart to buy his bag of Purigen this morning. Nearest Petsmart is over 10 miles away - so whatever dollar or two he 'saved' buying it there, he had to drive an extra 10 miles and back to do so. Did he really save? Not likely - but there's no convincing him otherwise.... but I digress...

guess what happened ?


they all started happily paying for tests, and eventually got their own kits, and they also wasted my time alot less w/ b.s. in general

And what about DAA claims? Did they rise? Ever have a pang of guilt knowing that you likely sold something to somebody with crappy water and it was going to be dead in a day or two? I know things die - and that things are 'ecologically dead' when they leave the ocean, but I feel that I need to try my best to make sure that each creature has the best quality of life possible when it leaves my store (and during its stay here). Idealistic and a bit "Pollyanna" perhaps but that's my philosophy. To do that, a free water test for a customer is a small way to help achieve that.

why should ANY of your time be free?

Well, when I give advice and the customer goes to Petsmart to buy the stuff I recommend, that time was free and a hell of a lot more infuriating than doing a simple water test.

I don't disagree on putting a value on my time - like I said in an earlier post, I went through a time when people were abusing my 'free consultation'... to the point where I charged for the visit and would refund it against a future purchase - just to make people STOP wasting my time. However, there are times when a freebie is good business. And likewise, there are times when a freebie is being taken advantage of. I think I can tell the difference

your problem is that you're trying to please everybody, and educating them that it's their RIGHT to expect such, even at your own expense

I don't see how offering a free water test is a problem. I don't see how trying to educate hobbyists is a problem. Even if I didn't do free tests and if I charged by the minute for advice, there are still some people who would aggrivate me and waste my time *g*. I'm here to help... I'm in a position of "customer service" which seems to be fast becoming a lost art. Guess I'm a dinosaur...

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

I love this thread, folks...keep up the stories & anecdotes.

I can top the whole "buying non-recommended fish at another store," tho.

You ever discourage people to buy a fish, they leave, and then come back and one of the OWNERS sells it to them?

I'm so glad I don't work there anymore.

I'm also looking forward to making the pilgrimage to Imagine Ocean.

Peace,

Chip

 

[Anonymous]

LOL I particularly like it when a customer has a problem with you over something trivial or just a few $$$ and then they suddenly become this big wig who spends $12K a week on their fish tanks and was only testing you with their $3.50 purchase. Seems like every disgruntled customer turns out to be some whale I just missed out on.

 

[Anonymous]

Ahhh, owners.

 

[Anonymous]

OK, here's one. I had a kid once order 100 hermits. I shipped them out. When he got them he called and said that every last one of them was dead.

I said holy crap I am sorry to hear that. I can't imagine what happened. Of course I must ask how he knows they were dead. "cause all the shells were floating at the top of the bag".

Excuse me? The hermit shells were all floating?

Ok, again I am sorry. Can you please send me back the shells?

"What? No I can't."

It's no worry I will pay for the shipping back.

"Well I would, but I put all the shells in the tank and my lion fish at them all."

LOL. Usually it's easy to catch people trying to cheat you. It would be fun if it wasn't so insulting.

 

[SeanF]

Ok got one of those online sales experiences to add to the floating hermit crab shells. I sent a guy out some Trochus snails and he got them and then left positive feedback. After I left him positive feedback I get an e-mail from him stating that they had all started to die and that he was losing a couple every couple of hours. I tell him that it must have been his water because he had asked me to hold of shipping a couple of weeks because he was having a tank issue. Anyway this is where it gets interesting. He told me his tank was perfect and that the snails shells were collapsing because they had a cancer that only affects trochus snails. I almost rolled on the floor laughing so hard when I heard that. Either way I told him that he was a scammer and that he wasn't getting a dime back from me. He threatened to turn me into the police and various other idle threats. Needless to say I still have all the money from that transaction.

In my store we quit offering a guarantee on our livestock because of all the problems with other stores in the area. We will still take care of any issues my good loyal customers may have but that just doesn't happen. I have figured out that a lot of customers will tell you just about anything when it comes to getting new fish. You just have to put them to the test and usually after they relax a little and admit to themselves that it was something they did they will come back and spend money.

 

[WayneSallee]

I don't do free water test either, even though the store down the street does.
Here's what I charge:

Ph .50
Ammonia .50
Nitrite .50
Nitrate 2.00
Phosphate 2.00
Calcium 3.00
Alkalinity 3.00
Hardness 3.00

And I also don't go to peoples house for free quotes. I charge the regular service charge of 20.00 trip charge, and 20.00 an hour, minim 1 hour. And I don't refund it out of the later tank purchase.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets
[email protected]

 

[WayneSallee]

I used to get a lot of customers that would bring glass tops back, claiming that they were broken in the box when they got it. I even had one customer that had a tank with a turtle in it (yea UV light does not go through glass very well). She had a filter on the end of the tank. Naturally the filter would need to be moved to the back of the tank. But apparently she didn't want to move the filter because when she brought the glass top back claiming it was broken in the box, you could see where she had tried to cut it with a hack saw. She claimed that crack must have happened on the way to the store, and that the other crack was already there when she purchased it.

I stopped that nonsense by opening each box at the time of the sale, and with them watching, mark a check mark on the box to note that it has been checked. No more false claims of broken glass tops. :lol:

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets
[email protected]