Choice items for propagation

[Dozer]

Eric- This is great, thanks for starting this post!

I am one of those people that is very interested in this topic and considering such an endeavor (coral farming). It is great to hear all of these opinions. I have read many posts by Anthony Calfo on this subject in many different places and he definitely feels that there is still a LOT of room/demand for MANY more coral farmers- and that is just with the current situation. In fact after literally hundreds of hours researching this topic on several other boards this is the first place I have ever seen anyone state that they feel there might be too many farmers/farmed livestock available in the trade right now. Everything else I have seen has said the opposite- that the current situation is more of high demand for product. Also, if the landscape were to change and certain species were to become more difficult to acquire/import overseas of course the demand for those aquacultured would increase dramatically- but that is speculative and a slightly different topic. This looks like it will be a very informative thread!

For anyone that might be interested I found this the other night. It's a presentation Anthony Calfo gave at IMAC, summer 2005. I watched it and it's very good (there are some other presentations linked on the same page as well) http://www.theimac.org/

 

[pyrrhus]

Eric,

What kind of production volume are you looking for out of a farm on a piece per week or month basis?

Or is the situation so bad that you just basically take what you can get when it is available?

Thanks for your input

Skip McMahan
About The Reef

 

[Anonymous]

In fact after literally hundreds of hours researching this topic on several other boards this is the first place I have ever seen anyone state that they feel there might be too many farmers/farmed livestock available in the trade right now.

Please understand, I did not mean that I feel there are too many farmers. Just that there are possibly too many focussing on the same set of animals as each other. I think there are a great many species that are not regularly farmed at this point which, from an economic perspective, it might make more sense for someone taking up coral farming to grow as opposed to what have become the old stand-bys.

 

[Dozer]

In fact after literally hundreds of hours researching this topic on several other boards this is the first place I have ever seen anyone state that they feel there might be too many farmers/farmed livestock available in the trade right now.

Please understand, I did not mean that I feel there are too many farmers. Just that there are possibly too many focussing on the same set of animals as each other. I think there are a great many species that are not regularly farmed at this point which, from an economic perspective, it might make more sense for someone taking up coral farming to grow as opposed to what have become the old stand-bys.

Gotcha cj. I think I did slightly misunderstand your original comments. Thanks for clarifying! Also on a sidenote, thank you for offering a somewhat alternative opinion on this issue. Since I am considering doing this I'll admit to deep down "hoping" the answer turns out to be, "there's tons of demand for almost everything, go do it and make a great living!". However, if that isn't the true state of the market I would much rather find out early before I invest too much time/money in it.

I also think it's a tricky market in that the most money to be made is the more rare items, however the market for more rare items is also probably the most competitive and volatile due to the fact that only a very small fraction of hobbyists are buying rare items and there are many etailers already providing such items. That's not to say there isn't room in that market either, but most of what I have read so far indicates more security/less risk in the more "bread and butter" corals market. However, those have MUCH smaller margins and as you point out have the potential to be overfarmed- although I would need to get a better idea of just how many of these corals the wholesalers/importers are needing on a monthly basis to even estimate how many farms it would take to satisfy the market. I'm thinking those would be very large numbers.

 

[sdcfish]

Skip,

Thanks for the post. I am glad to see a good response and hope that more people will participate in what I hope will be a productive effort to come up with a short list to get some new farmers started.

As far as volume, I think that it will vary specie to specie, but for Xenia for example, I am pretty confident that we could buy and sell over 150 pcs per month...conservatively. If we could buy farm raised neon green sinularia....that's another 150 pcs per month...easy.

So...I don't consider myself to be the only customer wanting to buy...and maybe I am 10% of the buyers or way less a percentage.....so seems to me, a smart effort would benefit.

Please feel free to add some items to the list:

Best regards...

 

[toddlaco]

I am in the process of completing my business plan for a coral farm and have already started some of my grow out.

How would the following be to add to Eric's original list:

Blue Xenia

Tree Corals
Tree Coral, Nephthea sp.
Carnation, Dendronephthya sp.
Kenya Tree, Capnella sp.

Devil's Hand, Lobophytum sp.

I think it is important to let other prospective coral farmers know that especially if they wish to sell to wholesale accounts, that the broodstock will normally need to be grown out for at least a year (2 with some coral)before there is sufficient stock to supply wholesalers. Eric, correct me if I am wrong, but I think that the wholesalers would require some consistency in supply. If the broodstock is not grown out to sufficient quantities and the coral farmer tells his/her accounts that they wont be available again for a while that those accounts may go elsewhere for product.

Todd

 

[sdcfish]

Todd,

Thanks for the input. I do believe that it's better to have regular supply, but this is a "supply and demand" industry because of the nature of our products......so I am not sure we have to live by the rules of consistency on supply when dealing with captive raised stuff. Yes, it's better, but I don't think I would shy away from a purchase if the product would sell...even if I wouldn't get more for a while.

Just my two cents....

 

[Philip Root]

Todd,

Thanks for the input. I do believe that it's better to have regular supply, but this is a "supply and demand" industry because of the nature of our products......so I am not sure we have to live by the rules of consistency on supply when dealing with captive raised stuff. Yes, it's better, but I don't think I would shy away from a purchase if the product would sell...even if I wouldn't get more for a while.

Just my two cents....

I thouhgt that you were looking for consistency.( I have been growning in levels for consistency or trying to work towards them ) I did not know that the market was that deprived of good captive bred corals. I knew demend was up and supply was down, but not too that level.


Give me a call....205-222-4321

Philip Root

 

[Piero]

I suspect we need more success just keeping Dendronephthea sp. before we can hope to farm them, eh?
_________________
blue moonshine pics

 

[Piero]

Carnation, Dendronephthya sp.

we haven't even gotten to the point of success with these in the trade yet I don't think, so farming is a bit premature for those, eh? Sure would be nice though.
_________________
causes of the great depression

 

[Justin74]

Awesome thread sdcfish. Very helpfull input everyone, thank you. I wanna farm like it's no one's business! I hope some of you dont mind that I will be contacting a few of you.

-Justin

 

[sdcfish]

Thanks.....

I have already been contacted by some farmers that will hopefully be able to start providing us with some Xenia for sale. That's a great start....

Thanks guys....let's get this list focused and start some farmin!

Best regards

 

[laverda]

I have a fair bit of Montipora capricornis. Would you prefer unmounted frags, mounted frags, mounted on LR or plugs or larger pieces/ colonys? In other words what would be best for you to ship and sell?
I am also propagating RBTA, GBTA and G&PurpleBTA anemones, but that is off to a much slower start then I expected. Still building my stock.

 

[eric.m.s]

IME, fast growing sps do great. e.g. a.youngei, m.digitata, m.capricornis, t. reiniformis, a. formosa, a. nana. they command higher prices, and are easier to mount to plugs.

Many LFS will buy xenia from hobbyists if you can provide the volume. The red sea variety usually can fetch a good price for the "farmer". even though it is a weed for many hobbyists you'd be surprised the demand from a retailer perspective.

 

[Anonymous]

i wonder if all of these farmers on this thread are aware of wholesale pricing vs. overhead, and what types of volume are needed to make a profit ?

you might want to first find out how much you will actually make per piece selling to a wholesaler vs your costs. will you be providing stock based on regular credit terms, immediate payment? etc etc-all of this should be looked into FIRST-for your own sake

do not forget to take into account that there are slow times of the year for everything-you may get stuck with alot of stock during a slow period, with your operational overhead remaining

then there's always the issue of a farmer trying to sell to both wholesale, and retail outlets-



just saying it's always worth to test the water first, before jumping completely into the tank

 

[toddlaco]

Actually, these are a few of the many reasons that are so important (a must) to be addressed in a good business plan before initiating the start up of a coral farm, or most any business for that matter.

 

[sdcfish]

Cool......

I definately would like some Montipora capricornis.....and on some kind of base is what I would prefer with some coral growth already over-growing onto the base.

I also agree with the comments made that selling to wholesale should not be the only level of marketing for any farmer in order to succeed. Some balance should be in place so that the blended margin is profitable.

Anyone that would like to contact me about providing us with product is welcomed.

Best regards..... Da Bears!

 

[Justin74]

i wonder if all of these farmers on this thread are aware of wholesale pricing vs. overhead, and what types of volume are needed to make a profit ?

you might want to first find out how much you will actually make per piece selling to a wholesaler vs your costs. will you be providing stock based on regular credit terms, immediate payment? etc etc-all of this should be looked into FIRST-for your own sake

So far Ive found more government grants to get me setup and running than Ive been able to gather any information on that subject. Im starting to think that wholesalers may be burnt out on giving there speil to the alot of flakey hobbyist who keep walking through there doors that are all talk and no walk, big dreams but no schemes?


-Justin

 

[treeman]

i wonder if all of these farmers on this thread are aware of wholesale pricing vs. overhead, and what types of volume are needed to make a profit ?

you might want to first find out how much you will actually make per piece selling to a wholesaler vs your costs. will you be providing stock based on regular credit terms, immediate payment? etc etc-all of this should be looked into FIRST-for your own sake

So far Ive found more government grants to get me setup and running than Ive been able to gather any information on that subject. Im starting to think that wholesalers may be burnt out on giving there speil to the alot of flakey hobbyist who keep walking through there doors that are all talk and no walk, big dreams but no schemes?


-Justin

What exactly do you mean? You can not find enough info on how to grow or what to grow? Or do you need a better business plan?

 

[Justin74]

Hunh?

A business plan is going to depend on the key factors that vitz pointed out, and I was not only agreeing, but confirming his statement of:"you might want to first find out how much you will actually make per piece selling to a wholesaler vs your costs" and adding onto it; stating: Everything else involved with setting up a business plan is very accessible in terms of gathering information EXCEPT the very key element that was aformentioned, how much will one get for various farmed items?

No one will have a good plan without it, or at least a complete one

On another point that was made was the point of ethics. Farmers potentially souring relationships by selling to retailers. But then there was mention of hopefully farmers not seeing wholesalers as there only source of income. Would both parties care to elaborate?

-Justin