Choice items for propagation

[treeman]

Hunh?

On another point that was made was the point of ethics. Farmers potentially souring relationships by selling to retailers. But then there was mention of hopefully farmers not seeing wholesalers as there only source of income. Would both parties care to elaborate?

-Justin

I don't see a problem with growers selling to wholesalers and retailers, but I do see a problem with a grower selling as a retailer and a wholesaler. I do believe that is what many growers are thinking they want to do. They see the added mark up and think that is the way to go. But there is many problems with that, when you try and sit on both sides of the fence.

Matt

 

[dizzy]

Justin,
I think vitz was tring to tell you wholesalers want stuff cheap. It has to be that way so they can sell to retailers at a reasonable price. The more markup a coral gets before it gets put on retail sale, the higher it has to sell for. Given the fact that retailers have to compete against online, frag swaps and the like, don't expect much for each piece at the wholesalers. If you sell direct to retailers they may be willing to pay more, but will be buying much less. If you're really cranking out stuff wholesale would be the way to go. If production is more limited then direct to retailers. If retailers learn you are also selling to their customers they not wish to support you. I probably wouldn't.
Mitch

 

[Justin74]

Yah, I agree. Selling as a retailer would burn alot of bridges. I would think it a good idea to coordinate with wholesalers so the farmers arent trying to push product on there retail clientel as well.


-Justin

 

[middletonmark]

I too see issues with selling on all levels of the market - wholesaler + retailer + end consumer. My LFS seems to value ORA as I have to go through him [or some other vendor] for it ... if I could order it myself, he'd get a fraction of the business + likely not carry them.
And given I'm concerned about pests, would happily pay for shipping so as to avoid another place to pick up redbugs/aefw/nudis/etc ... and my LFS would never see that business.


IMO, you will farm based on the market you want.
Reefkeeper? High-dollar LPS and the like might make most sense [only one transit - good for tough-shippers/easily damaged, most willing to pay high price for `exotic']. Xenia/common softies IMO don't make sense ... I know I'm not paying to ship tan finger leather.

If selling to wholesalers, seems a fickle and very low-price market. Would be a positive addition to this business IMO, but you'll deal with multiple ships - so hardy corals [softies?] might do best.

LFS? You need something that they can't get elsewhere [or at better price], doesn't hurt if you have a name folks ask for. Nevermind getting the word out to retailers still leaves you with how many who want to bother? [you're not a one-stop source like a wholesaler]

All three IMO are a bit different, and as you're unlikely to make selling to all 3 work ... probably best to custom your plan to the one you choose.

Just my hobbyist take on it.

 

[Philip Root]

Let's just say that I would never sell to a hobbiest, It takes too much time. To sell the amount of corals I sell to hobbiest I would spend all day on the phone, have to pay someone to pack the shipment and someone is growing them. Not too say how my big buyers would feel. Selling big money corals is a good way to lose alot of money, unless you are a chop shop. Then that is another deal all together.

Selling to retails is what I mainly do, Retailers are a good market but alot of face time is needed. I real enjoy talking to all the LFS owners, I learn a lot that way. As far as how many retails will buy from you 90% of the people I ask to buy, buy. I normally get a repeat buy within 2 weeks. The market is there you just have to know how to go about it.

Big wholesalers is looking the best for me. Yes, I get paid less but I do less ( I don't market the corals). I get to foces on what I enjoy ( working and learning from the corals ) and not on the other stuff. If all that matters to you is money, you are in the wronge market. If you are like me, money matters but not dealing with stuff is the other issue.



Philip

 

[sdcfish]

My feeling as a wholesaler, is that I am happy to buy from a vendor that also sells to retailers, as long as the pricing is fair, and the vendor is keeping an "ethical" margin for us, the wholesaler.

For example....if I am paying $10.00 for a propagated coral, then I would expect the same vendor to sell that same coral to a retailer for at least $15.00. That way I can still market the corals fairly with some profit in it.

Now....I would have a big problem if the pricing is not kept where we can still compete with the vendor....that would be a problem where we probably would not continue to support that vendor.

Best regards,

 

[sdcfish]

My feeling as a wholesaler, is that I am happy to buy from a vendor that also sells to retailers, as long as the pricing is fair, and the vendor is keeping an "ethical" margin for us, the wholesaler.

For example....if I am paying $10.00 for a propagated coral, then I would expect the same vendor to sell that same coral to a retailer for at least $15.00. That way I can still market the corals fairly with some profit in it.

Now....I would have a big problem if the pricing is not kept where we can still compete with the vendor....that would be a problem where we probably would not continue to support that vendor.

My main goal when dealing with vendors or customer for that matter, is that all parties need to be profitable and make some money on the transactions. I do feel it's in the best interests of coral growers, to have two levels of marketing. I am not sure if it's absolutely necessary, but I am open to the idea.

Best regards,

 

[treeman]

Eric,

Is there a market for Rhodactis (blue or green hairy) or certian gorgonians?

Matt

 

[sdcfish]

Matt,

Don't tease me.......It would be awesome to have some non-photosynthetic gorgonians......you can?

I also think Rhodactis would work.

Best regards....

 

[Justin74]

Let's just say that I would never sell to a hobbiest, It takes too much time

I hear that Phillip! Couple group buys, swappin and sellin this and thats, I'll be the first to say amen to that!heheh

Great input again sdcdfish, thanks. After I posted and walked away and thought about it, the kinda "no compete" idea you suggested dawned on me.


-Justin

 

[redsonja]

Interesting reading. Thanks for pointing me to this discussion Dozer.

I'm another of those wannabe coral farmers, I've only just finished the first draft of a business plan but I do have a small start on broodstock. I'm happy to see that 5 of the corals/inverts on sdcfish's list are ones I am already growing. Some real numbers on what I could expect to get selling to distributors would help a lot on the number-crunching to refine the business plan. Sources for good broodstock of the ones I don't have yet would be good too.

-Sonja

 

[Anonymous]

Wow, this thread has all ready produced fruit Nice going Eric :mrgreen:

Xenia looked great. Good size and most polyps were open I'm glad I happen to be in LA to see it

 

[Anonymous]

BTW, if there was a thread of the week on RDO, I'd vote for this one

 

[pyrrhus]

Truly the most productive thread in this forum in months.

 

[Anonymous]

Now don't get any thoughts about shipping your frags Skip. I wouldn't want to see your locals do anything rash :lol: (dragged over from RC SPS forum )

 

[sdcfish]

Gresham brings up a good questions about how we can control any "unwanted" stowayas when purchasing captive raised inverts. I think Gresham was referring to sps corals......and the flatworms that are not visible when inspecting them upon arrival.

So....anyone who has a good quarantine protocol....please do share.

Thanks and regards,

 

[Anonymous]

Guess I should have posted about that, huh?

I've got several resources on this. I'll gather them together and snail mail them all to you A picture is worth a thousand words after all

 

[treeman]

Gresham,

I would love to get a copy of that. We are treating for flatworms now. They got thru my qt and into one system. Please pm me if you are willing to send them.

Thanks, Matt

 

[Anonymous]

No problem Matt. It's mainly stuff from several reef clubs, RC postings in the SPS forum and Frank Burrs new book.

 

[treeman]

Thanks, I pm'd you.